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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#197726: Jan 7th 2020 at 2:48:12 PM

[tup] to Maje Jal Valek.

[tup] Transformers trio.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#197727: Jan 7th 2020 at 2:50:15 PM

[tup]The fallen

First cm for James Arnold Taylor ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#197728: Jan 7th 2020 at 2:51:05 PM

Yes to the Fallen.

First for James Arnold Taylor? [up][nja]

Edited by Bullman on Jan 7th 2020 at 4:51:25 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#197729: Jan 7th 2020 at 2:56:08 PM

I noticed that the entry for Sirrus was removed from Myst, was he cut?

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#197730: Jan 7th 2020 at 2:58:02 PM

[tup] to that version of The Fallen based on the EP.

@miraculous, @Bullman That who voiced him? In the movie, it was Tony Todd, correct?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#197731: Jan 7th 2020 at 2:59:36 PM

Yes. fun fact. Arnold is better known as Obi Wan Kenobi in the star wars annimated shows.

Edited by miraculous on Jan 7th 2020 at 3:05:18 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#197733: Jan 7th 2020 at 3:02:16 PM

@miraculous: I also know him as the main character from Final Fantasy X. Though he is my favorite Obi-Wan.

Edited by Bullman on Jan 7th 2020 at 5:03:40 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#197734: Jan 7th 2020 at 3:06:37 PM

I noticed that the entry for Sirrus was removed from Myst, was he cut?

From what i remember the entry was very bad and didn't explain how he was even heinous enough. So we decide to just cut him.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#197735: Jan 7th 2020 at 3:09:04 PM

@ Vile The weird thing is, he'a still on the monster subpage but his entry was cut from the YMMV page in 2015. EDIT: It was actually moved to Myst IV: Revelation so I guess nevermind.

Edited by papyru30 on Jan 7th 2020 at 4:12:03 AM

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#197736: Jan 7th 2020 at 3:15:10 PM

[tup] Starscream (Thought I never say that) and the Fallen.

Also, I’m not sure, but I think James Arnold Taylor is also the voice of Ratchet from the Ratchet and Clank series.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#197737: Jan 7th 2020 at 3:32:59 PM

[tup] Fallen.

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#197738: Jan 7th 2020 at 3:43:49 PM

Yes to Jal Valek, Megatron, Starscream, and The Fallen.

No to Alicia and Secco.

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#197739: Jan 7th 2020 at 4:20:17 PM

[tup] Megatron, Starscream and the Fallen

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#197740: Jan 7th 2020 at 4:20:49 PM

[tup] to Maje Jal Valek and the Transformers trio

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#197741: Jan 7th 2020 at 4:28:32 PM

[tup]Valek, Megatron, Starscream, Fallen

abstain on Alicia

[tdown]Secco (as much as I love Jojo)

Edited by nwotyzal on Jan 7th 2020 at 4:31:01 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#197742: Jan 7th 2020 at 5:03:21 PM

[tup] Alicia (seems like she wanted the Uber-Espers to do what they did), Valek, Megatron, Starscream and Fallen

[tdown] Secco

randomtroper89 from The Fire Nation Since: Nov, 2010
#197743: Jan 7th 2020 at 7:11:15 PM

  • Josef Mengele is a Nazi scientist with an important role in Heydrich's conspiracy, forming a seer network to combine there mental abilities. He does this by extracting there brains, leaving them alive in agony. He performs cruel experiments on humans and inhumans alike, being introduced showing off various creatures either dead or in agony. He then shows another group of creatures, mutated into vicious creatures and tortured into submission. He has a group of naked prisoners feed to the ravenous beasts. Later he is sent to Auschwitz to experiments with the brains of seers. He has test subjects injected with the cranial fluids, which causes them to shake, bleed, and die, and then kills hundreds of people with a psychic blast, all while sending people not fit for experimentation to be gassed. After Heydrich's death, he fled Germany, still proud of his atrocities, and disappointed he could not commit more.

Edited by randomtroper89 on Jan 7th 2020 at 9:13:32 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#197744: Jan 7th 2020 at 7:32:51 PM

I just reserved a movie: The Gentlemen.

The Gentlemen!

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#197745: Jan 7th 2020 at 8:30:08 PM

Hey, what is the opinion of this thread on proposing a candidate from a Dead Fic?

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#197746: Jan 7th 2020 at 8:40:01 PM

So long as it's dead and it's been a while since it has been updated just to make sure, then I don't see a problem.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#197748: Jan 7th 2020 at 10:21:59 PM

Yes to the Transformers villains.

Here are my write-ups:

  • Last Son of Krypton: Towbee the ministerial is a seemingly harmless and obnoxious villain, who is secretly The Master, a powerful intergalactic real estate tycoon. The Master steals a time snatcher device from a scientist and uses it to take planets from the future so that he can sell them in the present. The planets are fundamentally unstable and will disappear in 100 years, killing anyone who has settled on those planets eventually. The Master hears of a prophecy of a tyrant taking over part of the galaxy and plans to be that tyrant. The Master plans to use the time snatcher to harness the power of black holes to separate a large part of the galaxy called ''the Galatic Arm'' from the rest of the universe, so that the Guardians of the Universe cannot stop his plans for conquest. Eventually, the Master arrives on Earth and plans to take over Earth's telecommunications systems and use it to mind control humanity, wanting to make humanity into an army of conquest that will help conquer the Galatic Arm.
  • Star Trek: Voyager (Marvel Comics Series): Maje Jal Valek, from the Homeostasis arc, is the leader of the Kazon sect Oglamar. Valek is a cruel leader, often assaulting his own men for no reason. Valek steals a powerful bioweapon and launches it at a peaceful planet called Praja, completely destroying the planet's ecosystem. This results in most plants on the planet dying, animals starving death and the local population forced to live in caves to escape the bioweapon, though they will die as well in short order. Valek has done this so he can strip mine the planet and take its resources for himself. When Voyager arrives and tries to restore the planet's ecosystem, Valek tries to destroy Voyager, so that he prove himself superior to the other Kazon sects.

Edited by Overlord on Jan 7th 2020 at 10:29:26 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#197749: Jan 7th 2020 at 10:30:30 PM

so, have one to discuss from Skyrim after talking with Scraggle. I give you Hevnoraak.

Who is Hevnoraak?

A wicked Dragon Priest, dead for 'many generations,' entombed in the lands of valthume. Hevnoraak hungered for a way to overcome death and obsessively worked for such a manner. Hevnoraak was capable of enthralling others, building up an army of loyal followers as he hunted for a way to cheat death and become an immortal tyrant. Good men fell under the spell of Hevnoraak, twisted forever and turned into evil monsters, with fear keeping them in line...Hevnoraak? Would routinely torture them, even consigning them to death to be undead soldiers.

With his death approaching, Hevnoraak planned his revival, but a hero named Valdar interfered. Hevnoraak was defeated, his soul sealed in his own tomb...but it didn't die. Instead, Hevnoraak continued to wait and plot his return to life..throughout Hevnoraak's tomb, we see the results and evidence of the things he's done as his spirit taunts the Dragonborn...

For rituals or for pleasure? Hevnoraak was a rather depraved torturer, with countless living beings subjected to ghastly and abominable actions there. Keeping spiders as pets in the tomb (really giant ones), Hevnorak would give prisoners to them to feed upon and cocoon alive, while devouring later on, the Dragonborn seeing a number wrappe dup...Hevnoraak? Would give his victims paralysis poison and throw them to the spiders, to be devoured nice and slow. While still alive and breathing.

Dotting the walls, we also see Hevnoraak ruled through fear, slaughtering multitudes as a message to his troops, while torturing others and feeding more to his spiders. One lore video states the source of Hevnoraak's love for torture isn't quite known but "mostly likely, it was because he was a sick weirdo" with a spider fetish, manacled victims all over the damn tomb, other undead remaining around the tomb that Hevnoraak had made.

Hevnoraak, in life? Had drained his own blood out, with intent on securing Lichdom...with Valdar's help, the Dragonborn begins to sabotage Hevnoraak's revival. With Valdar's help, the Dragonborn revives Hevnoraak in a weakened state, and destroys the mad lich personally.

Heinous standard?

Soooo, Elder Scrolls...maybe I'm jaded, but it's you know, full of evil monsters. That said? For one dragon priest? Hevnoraak is a damn nightmare. We see the evidence through his tomb as we do a number of others. Hevnoraak has a level of evil on a huge scale, and isn't even done after death.

And the spiders, let's talk the spiders...look, paralysis poison plus feeding gigantic swaths of victims to them while still alive? That's unique and nightmarish.

Mitigating Qualities?

We get a good glimpse of his personality from his spirit, and...no, he's just a mad, would-be tyrant. And again, "because he's a sick weirdo" with a spider fetish. That's all.

Conclusion?

I'd give the Dragon Priest a keep.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#197750: Jan 7th 2020 at 10:36:02 PM

I've fought against this guy for a while (like I have a lot of Elder Scrolls candidates that I've since loosened up on). Having reconsidered? I think I can say yes. Let's be honest, here; there's eight Dragon Priests (not including Miraak) and six of them do jackshit onscreen. Even some of the others that receive characterization such as Otar the Mad and Morokei are clear nonkeepers compared to the actual awfulness of Hevnoraak and Rahgot, and I think there's just enough onscreen to clear.


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