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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#197151: Jan 3rd 2020 at 9:58:32 AM

[tup] to Burke.

Abstain on Desjardins for now, at least.

If no objections I'll put the Oxventure to the discussion date list and put my name next to it?

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#197152: Jan 3rd 2020 at 10:01:45 AM

Found another unapproved Complete Monster entry, this time on the Recap page for the Big Finish Doctor Who story "The Contingency Club". I cut the entry and linked to the thread. Anybody familiar with Doctor Who can do an EP if they want, although this probably another franchise that's been extensively covered.

  • Complete Monster: The Red Queen is trying to take over England and, failing that, blow it up, merely to win a bet.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#197153: Jan 3rd 2020 at 10:13:43 AM

Since thereis no objections, here is Burke's writeup:

Asylum: Dr. Magnus Burke is a former head of an insane Asylum, which was destroyed and rebuild as Richard Miller University in present day. Deciding to focus his efforts on teenagers and little children, Burke started using his new "curing" method on them, thinking that he can "fix" their mental illness faster by driving lobotomy picks into their eyes to simultaneously destroy tissue in the frontal lobes. That led to several deaths and many patients being left traumatized by the experience. Eventually Burke's cruelty caused all patients to rebel and kill him the same way he tortured them. Swearing revenge, Burke come back as a ghost to haunt the Asylum and used his powers to torture and murder dozens of people and steal their souls. Hunting down students of Richard Miller University, Magnus tortured them physically and mentally before killing them, as he enjoyed their pain.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Jan 3rd 2020 at 9:16:52 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#197154: Jan 3rd 2020 at 10:35:35 AM

Lighty, I'll leave it up to you: First before or after Nergal?

And should the Cthulhu snake duo just go at the end of the page? Like so?

Pulp Cthulhu ("The Two-Headed Serpent" module)

And which of the two snake baddies should go first?

Edited by ACW on Jan 3rd 2020 at 1:38:01 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#197155: Jan 3rd 2020 at 10:41:25 AM

I’d say put the First first and Joshua first there

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#197156: Jan 3rd 2020 at 10:44:11 AM

Check and check.

EDIT: And speaking of Joshua, no wonder Joshua Wright was cut. He seems awful, but compared to, say, even Julian, he's outmatched.

Edited by ACW on Jan 3rd 2020 at 1:58:01 PM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#197157: Jan 3rd 2020 at 11:08:09 AM

Sorry I hadn't been on here much this week. Had a very nasty sinus infection that prevented me from doing anything these past few days. I'm slowly recovering, and want to provide y'all with an EP for another song.

What Is the Work?

Necro is a Brooklyn rapper best known for his horror-themed hip hop songs. He’s also the older brother of Ill-Bill, who frequently collaborates on his albums.

One song from Necro’s album Necro Presents: Brutality Pt. 1, “White Slavery” (Lyrics here), is about the dangers and horrors of human trafficking sung through the perspective of two human traffickers, one played by Necro, the other Ill-Bill.

Who Is he?

The first trafficker, sung by Ill-Bill (I’m gonna treat this like Ghetto Boys’ “Mind of a Lunatic” and refer to these characters by their rapper’s names), is a sadistic white slaver who surpasses the other trafficker, Necro, in evilness.

What has he done?

Kidnapping women and selling them for money, Ill-Bill injects his women with drugs and feeds them dog food, while also torturing them in order to make them cum and forcing them to beat each other bloody for his own amusement. Handcuffing them until they starve to the point they crave human flesh, Ill-Bill makes them cannibals for fun, feeding them human flesh and making them eat each other’s brains. “Retarded acquaintances” meanwhile, are raped, covered in lighter fluid, and burned to death in a sound-proof room. Totally aware that he’s a scumbag, Ill-Bill plans to keep doing this until he’s 103, making plenty of money selling these women to the highest bidder.

Redeeming Qualities?

He’s a human trafficker. Nuff said.

Heinousness?

While Necro’s character is equally bad—he’s a human trafficker after all—he treats his business like a business, and doesn’t go as far in his cruelness compared to Ill-Bill.

Like I said, the song as a whole is about the dangers of human trafficking, just what kind of people would kidnap innocent women, and how they’re mostly never found again despite extensive police searches. Ill-Bill shows the worst of these people. Cruel, sadistic, no reason for this whatsoever beyond satisfaction and greed, and shows no signs of stopping.

Conclusion

I think I see him as a keep.

It's Spooky Month!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#197158: Jan 3rd 2020 at 11:15:11 AM

Yes to Ill-Bill. His psychoticness vs. Necro's pragmatism reminds me of "The Slavers", only if Tiberiu were much worse than Cristu and Vera.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#197160: Jan 3rd 2020 at 11:22:52 AM

[tup] Ill Bill.

AFreakyDude Since: Jul, 2015
#197161: Jan 3rd 2020 at 11:24:18 AM

[tup] Ill-Bill for his cruelties in human trafficking.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#197162: Jan 3rd 2020 at 11:30:05 AM

[tup] Burke and Ill-Bill, abstain on Desjardins for the time being.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#197163: Jan 3rd 2020 at 11:32:57 AM

[tup]Ill-Bill

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#197165: Jan 3rd 2020 at 11:54:23 AM

Well, it's now trimmed at least some:

  • The House in Fata Morgana: Lord Jean-François Barnier is one of the biggest reasons the story of Fata Morgana happens, and the man who started the chain of events that would cause Morgana to become the Big Bad of the story. He purchases the 11-year old Morgana after hearing about her holy saint's blood, and when he meets Morgana, he is reveling in a harem that Morgana notes has girls that are barely older than her. He tells her that she is his property and to use her blood for his amusement, and when she refuses, chains her up and cuts her for her blood, which he serves at what Morgana calls "blood sabbats", where he and other members of the nobility drink her blood, cutting her across every inch of her body for weeks at a time for a whole year. One day, he gives Morgana some meat to eat, and upon her comment that the meat is vile, she tells her that it's the meat of one of his servants, and he taunts the brother of the man he killed for the meat. It is noted that he often tortures and kills slaves simply because he can. When Morgana's health deteriorates and her face starts falling apart, he immediately tries to kill her. When Jacopo launches a revolt and fights Barnier, he stabs Ceren, the only person in the world he has any interest in, just because she disobeyed his order to stay hidden for a chance to murder Jacopo.

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#197166: Jan 3rd 2020 at 12:06:46 PM

Sure to Ill Bill. Always enjoyed his songs.

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Jan 3rd 2020 at 9:09:31 PM

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#197167: Jan 3rd 2020 at 12:08:17 PM

Condolences and thoughts for you there, xie.

I hope you continue to feel better, jackieboy! 'As someone with sinus problems, I feel you on a personal legel. Yes' to Ill-Bill. And the Cthulhu duo on that note.

Here's my loooong pending write-ups, btw, with some rewrites in there for good measure.

  • Plea of Insanity: Dr. David Marquette was a seemingly jovial, polite man who was supposedly afflicted with schizophrenia that drove him to murder his entire family. Truthfully, Marquette is faking his schizophrenia, hoping to use the insanity plea to get a lighter sentence for his brutal massacre of his wife and toddler children—including a newborn daughter—with a knife and blunt force object. Marquette's motives are never divulged, but as truth of his past comes to light, notably his attempted murder of his mother and his possible connections to a variety of serial killings, Marquette's reasons for the crime are declared a combination of greed and cruelty, the latter capped off as he flashes a smug smirk to his prosecutor after she helps him get his insanity plea, giving her a cold glimpse into the real person he is.

  • Pretty Little Things: "Picasso," Mark Felding, is a sadistic serial kidnapper and killer who targets young girls online, kidnaps them, and keeps them as his tormented, malnourished "pets" for months at a time. Possessed of a vigorous religious conviction that all women are whores, Picasso eventually butchers the girls in his possession and poses them in artistic fashions for police to find, often torturing and mutilating them before their deaths and raping the corpses. When his crimes are discovered, Picasso murders his "favorite" of the girls by blowing her head off with a shotgun, before trying to kill his youngest victim yet while taunting Special Agent Bobby Dees that one of his victims was Bobby's daughter just to torment him.

  • The Big Guy and Rusty the Boy Robot: "The Monster" is an ancient, dinosaur-like entity that once ruled the world as a cruel Hive Mind before being forced into a deep slumber. Emerging after scientists create a vessel capable of containing its great power, the Monster immediately begins slaughtering all of Tokyo, sadistically taunting its citizens of their inferiority while digesting them alive before turning countless more into monstrous extensions of its will, a fate worse than death for them all. When the Big Guy and Rusty arrive to try to cease the destruction, the Monster gleefully tries to kill them both while boasting its plans to turn the world into an unending nightmare of death and pain for all of humanity.

  • G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra: James "Destro" McCullen is an arms dealer and the head of M.A.R.S. Industries, using the company to mask his growing schemes for power. Able and willing to sell to weapons to terrorists worldwide and eager to test out said weapons on anyone in close proximity, McCullen works with the Doctor to create the powerful machines called Nanites, using them to turn hundreds of men into enslaved soldiers fully aware of their surroundings but unable to control their own actions. Developing four nanite warheads then orchestrating the destruction of the military convoy transporting them, McCullen tests one of the warheads out on Paris in an attempt to wipe it out, before planning to use the other three to destroy Moscow, Beijing and Washington, D.C., at which point his plan to use an imposter President to take control of a panicked Earth will ensue. McCullen also arranges for the deaths of his own troops should they be captured, has the President's security detail killed, and keeps the Baroness as his enslaved puppet to seduce, even ordering the death of her public husband out of mere jealousy.

Next up, a slight rewrite for God of War!Medusa that clears up some things I misinterpreted:

  • God of War novelization: Medusa is far worse than her video game counterpart. Medusa keeps tortured slaves under her thrall, one of whom she blinds and has sex with regularly, something heavily implied to have befallen many slaves before him. Medusa's vile nature is fully revealed as it is seen she regularly has her servants cook human infants for her to devour as a meal, and when a disgusted Kratos tries to kill her for this crime that horrifies even him, Medusa ends up murdering one of her own slaves in a blind anger.

And finally, two G.I. Joe entries that could do with shortening:

  • G.I. Joe: Renegades:

    • Cobra Commander/Adam DeCobray is the cruel, calculating head of Cobra Industries, who uses the supposed philanthropic organization to mask the terrorist activities of the group "Cobra." The Commander utilizes Cobra for a variety of crimes, from developing a bioplague to wiping out entire towns when they halt Cobra development, all while silencing any potentials leaks and ruthlessly executing or punishing his subordinates, notably sealing a metal mask around the face of James McCullen and dubbing him "Destro". To combat the Joes, the Commander threatens their entire families with death, kidnaps one of their number to experiment on, and frames them for heinous crimes committed by Cobra itself. After his bevy of plans to Take Over the World through more subtle methods are consistently thwarted by the Joes, the Commander forgoes all attempts at obscurity and tries to lead a full-on invasion of various countries using the M.A.S.S. device.

    • Dr. Mindbender is portrayed here as a more youthful, monstrous incarnation of his usual depictions in media. A psychopathic Mad Scientist who develops the Bio-Viper army for Cobra, Mindbender experiments on innocents to assist in his projects, and works with Baroness in ordering the deranged Firefly to destroy a small town and its inhabitants. Torturing the twin psychics Tomax and Xamot in an attempt to use their powers for Mind Rape, Mindbender later tries to destroy Brooklyn, New York just to distract the Joes from his activities, and interrogates and threatens a young child for information in the same episode. As Cobra develops the M.A.S.S. device, Mindbender cheerfully tests it on Cobra's own soldiers, uncaring of any deaths it causes, before trying to send Snake Eyes through it and kill him while making his best friend Scarlett watch.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#197168: Jan 3rd 2020 at 12:08:25 PM

Yes to Ill-Bill, Julian, Smiley, Nergal, Joshua, Rose, Guillotine, Armand, Fernand, Fulcanelli and Burke.

Abstain on Desjardins.

Condolences xie.

I have got another DC novel villain to propose, this one from an old novel, Last Son of Krypton from 1978, a book in the same continuity as Miracle Monday, this book features Superman fighting an alien tyrant who is prophecized to destroy all his enemies and conquer a large part of the galaxy, including Superman and its not Darkseid or Brainiac, its an original villain:

Who is the Master? What has he done?

Towbee is an obnoxious cosmic bard who goes to planets and pulls pranks on people but leads a double life, he is secretly The Master a corrupt real-estate tycoon, though the solar system he lives in has an economy based on barter, not currency. Towbee pretends to be an obnoxious, but harmless villain to scope out potential enemies on a planet and test them. The Master stole a time snatcher device from a scientist and used it to make a killing by using it snatch planets from the future and trade them for various gifts, allowing alien races to settle these planets after he is compensated for them. But the planets are unstable and will disappear within a hundred years, killing everyone who is on these planets. That will lead to billions of deaths, but the Master has even bigger designs in mind, the Master has heard the prophecy that a tyrant will conquer a large part of the galaxy and the Master intends to be that tyrant. The Master wants to conquer part of the galaxy called Galatic Arm, which has almost a thousand sentient species in it (including humans). The Masters plans to use the time snatcher to harness the power of black holes to separate the Galatic Arm from the rest of the Universe, so the Master can conquer it, without having to worry about the Guardians of the Universe (of Green Lantern fame) stopping him.

Anyway, Lex Luthor and Superman travel to the planet Orci to confront the Master (the Master stole a letter from Albert Einstein that Lex stole first and Lex is pissed about it), where Lex pretends to work for the Master and the Master manages to capture Superman. However, Lex frees Superman after discovering his mad schemes. Lex and Superman escape from the Master's pyramid base and manage to disrupt many forces the Master has on Orci. However, the Master escapes to Earth.

The Master is planning taking over the telecommunications network of the Earth and use it to mind control everyone on Earth, with the Master planning to use humanity as his army of conquest for the rest of the Galatic Arm. Superman confronts the Master at the WGBS TV studio (this when Clark was a TV anchor for WGBS TV, rather than a newspaper reporter) and disrupts his mind-controlling broadcast. The Master uses various tricks against Clark, trying to get rid of Superman through a dimensional warp, mind-controlling people in the studio to attack Superman and using illusions to destroy Superman's spirt, taking the form of Joe-El and berating him. Superman overcomes the Master's tricks and defeats him. The would-be Master is turned over to the Guardians and the prophecy is broken.

Is he heinous by the standards of the story?

This book is in the same continuity as Miracle Monday, which featured a demon that tried to nuke everyone on Earth and start a cosmic Armageddon. But the Master was going to enslave humanity and make them into a conquering army, kill billions with his insane real estate scheme and I can't imagine using black holes to separate the Galatic Arm from the rest of the universe wouldn't kill a ton of people, his attempted body count may up to the trillions at that point. That is pretty heinous.

Any Freudian Excuse or other redeeming qualities?

Nah, he's called The Master, that is a red flag, his underlings are his slaves, who he does not care about and he is driven by greed and power lust. He is a combination of slimy real estate tycoon and galactic conqueror.

Final Verdict?

Another The Master, another keep.

Edited by Overlord on Jan 3rd 2020 at 12:11:21 PM

TiMBer1566 kittykat from Virginia Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
kittykat
#197169: Jan 3rd 2020 at 12:14:06 PM

So I just finished rewatching the film and everything I stated in the effort post still stands

And as for Desjardins' brief line of dialogue, it is translated

Here it is:

"The eternal serpent will free you child! Be my filth! Be my filth! I will wash you in the river! Your blood will feed the river!"

Make of that what you will.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#197170: Jan 3rd 2020 at 12:14:43 PM

[tup] The Master.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#197172: Jan 3rd 2020 at 12:17:42 PM

[tup]Ill-Bill and The Master.

Edited by Clown-Face on Jan 3rd 2020 at 12:24:56 PM

Why so serious?
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#197173: Jan 3rd 2020 at 12:21:42 PM

[tup]The Master

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#197174: Jan 3rd 2020 at 12:26:49 PM

[tup] Master. Same continuity confirmed, or just same author?

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015

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