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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#197126: Jan 3rd 2020 at 6:44:34 AM

Okay does he have dialogue when he's possessing Deborah?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TiMBer1566 kittykat from Virginia Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
kittykat
#197127: Jan 3rd 2020 at 6:47:56 AM

There's a scene where Deborah is sleep walking and is speaking french, talking about snakes and sacrifices

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#197128: Jan 3rd 2020 at 6:48:24 AM

Alright is that translated at least....

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#197129: Jan 3rd 2020 at 6:49:29 AM

[tup] to Armand, Fernand, Fulcanelli, Magnus and Henri

TiMBer1566 kittykat from Virginia Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
kittykat
#197130: Jan 3rd 2020 at 6:53:55 AM

It's been a long time since I've seen the film, so I might have to rewatch it in order to clarify

AFreakyDude Since: Jul, 2015
#197131: Jan 3rd 2020 at 7:28:32 AM
Thumped: This post has been thumped with the mod stick. This means knock it off.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
Fighteer MOD Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#197133: Jan 3rd 2020 at 7:40:12 AM

~A Freaky Dude: Stop discussing candidates before the embargo is up. You've done it before. If you do it again, you will be banned from the cleanup thread.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#197134: Jan 3rd 2020 at 7:55:50 AM

BTW, doing some research: If it's Satan's entire rapsheet, he'll go first; if it's just as the First, he'll go after Nergal.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#197135: Jan 3rd 2020 at 8:39:45 AM

Not sure what the difference is? Satan here is the First

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#197136: Jan 3rd 2020 at 8:49:19 AM

[tup] to Dr. Magnus Burke and Henri Desjardins.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#197137: Jan 3rd 2020 at 8:50:25 AM

Yeah, I got that, but Satan, according to this, debuted in 1975, 16 or so years before his debut in Hellblazer.

BTW, here's everything that's pending:

Edited by ACW on Jan 3rd 2020 at 11:50:33 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#197138: Jan 3rd 2020 at 8:53:12 AM

Have you made your effortposts yet, ACW? Or is NUMB3RS pending as in the effortposts are upcoming?

[down][down] Oh. I mustn't have noticed.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jan 3rd 2020 at 11:59:04 AM

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#197139: Jan 3rd 2020 at 8:54:04 AM

[up][up]I think there's also the I Spy trio who have to be written up by Mimic45.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#197140: Jan 3rd 2020 at 8:55:02 AM

[up][up] I got one guy approved; I hope to do the other 2 tomorrow, and then write up whoever for this week's batch.

EDIT: Eh, it was on New Year's.

Edited by ACW on Jan 3rd 2020 at 12:00:09 PM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#197141: Jan 3rd 2020 at 8:59:17 AM

[tup]Julian, Smiley, Nergal, Joshua, Rose, Guillotine, Armand, Fernand (would they qualify in the original?), Fulcanelli, Burke, & Desjardins (man, go to sleep one night and I miss this much?)

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#197143: Jan 3rd 2020 at 9:22:44 AM

[tup] to Julian, Smiley, Nergal, Joshua, Rose, Guillotine, Armand, Fernand, Fulcanelli, Burke, & Desjardins

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#197144: Jan 3rd 2020 at 9:32:28 AM

Okay so desjardins may not even speak English or have his small dialogue translated. And you guys are all fine with putting him up apparently ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#197146: Jan 3rd 2020 at 9:39:09 AM

[up][up] Thank you. I was thinking the same thing. That, and the troper admitted to it being a while since they saw the film.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#197147: Jan 3rd 2020 at 9:39:29 AM

[up][up][up] Here is my position:

[tup] Desjardins, assuming he has dialogue while possessing Deborah.

Edit: Also, assuming any dialogue he has is subtitled.

Edit: I generally rewatch/reread a work before I make an effortpost, so I am switching to an abstain with my concerns.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jan 3rd 2020 at 12:41:08 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#197148: Jan 3rd 2020 at 9:45:49 AM

Mmm...Desjardins I'm a bit unsure of. Burke I think is an easy yes, as well as the good Signora Fulcanelli. Though...come on, guys, to-do list is getting way too big. Let's get some writeups in, and Ramson has been pending far too long. Mir, Ravok, MGD, etc?

  • Count of Monte Cristo
    • Fernand Mondego is the former friend of Edmond Dantes. In order to marry Edmond's fiancee Mercedes, Fernand frames Edmond for treason, sending him to a hellish prison to suffer and die while murdering the father of the corrupt prosecutor Villefort. Becoming a corrupt wastrel, Fernand kills a man he cuckolded, ruining his wife in the process, while taunting Mercedes over the affair. After being outed for what he is and learning Edmond is the true father of Mercedes' son Albert, Fernand tries to manipulate father and son into a death match to save himself. When cornered by Edmond, he tries to shoot Mercedes out of sheer spite before engaging Edmond, stating he cannot bear to live ina world where Edmond has everything while Fernand has nothing.
    • Armand Dorleac is the sadistic warden of the Chateau D'If.Despite knowing all the prisoners within the prison are innocent, Dorleac subjects them to horrific conditions and mistreats them all regularly, pronounced by torturing and whipping them upon the anniversary of their incarceration, which begins on the first day of their internment. Visiting Edmond every year to torture and flog him, Dorleac mocks the very idea of punishment, once telling Edmond to ask god for help with the taunting promise to "stop the moment he shows up."

  • Hellblazer: Nergal, one of Constantine's oldest foes, is a powerful demon who may have once been a sadistic pedophile as a human. As a demon, Nergal causes countless atrocities on earth, afflicting humans with plague while plotting the apocalypse. Responsible for the Newcastle incident when he dragged Astra Logan to hell while driving John insane, Nergal plots to stop the messiah's birth by forming the Damnation Army. Torturing and enslaving humans while having them perform sexual favors and forcing John's compliance by threatening to devour children, Nergal intends to have humanity eventually devoured. Returning later to reclaim his home from his rebellious daughter Rosacarnis, Nergal is revealed to have been a horrific father, having even forced Rosa to murder a servant kind to her, while intending on hijacking the bloodshed she and her and John's demonic children are causing on earth. Later returning just to stop John's wedding and ruin his happiness, Nergal tries to have him seduced or raped by a succubus, and kills her when she refuses simply for having "too much heart."

  • 'The Two-Headed Serpent'': Joshua Meadham, or Ssulithan the Serpent Man, is the true leader of Caduceus.. Ostensibly a charitable organization, Ssulithan is a vicious devotee of Yig who intends on enslaving and exterminating humanity. Ssulithan, upon the betrayal of his 'daughter' Rose, begins experimenting to create clones, subjecting humans to horrific experimentation to perfect a virus, while also organizing terrorist attacks that could kill thousands of innocents. Plotting to obtain access to Mu in actions that could kill millions, Ssulithan intends on unleashing a virus that will kill 99 percent of humanity and turn the remaining few into broken slaves for a new Serpent Empire.

Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 3rd 2020 at 9:53:20 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#197150: Jan 3rd 2020 at 9:53:18 AM

@miraculous: Well, I thought we were waiting until the proposer rewatched the movie to solidify the character, and I also thought he might have enough characterization from what we are told about him combined with his motivations. Thinking about it, I think I'll just switch to abstain.


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