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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#196676: Dec 30th 2019 at 4:58:15 PM

About two weeks ago I’ve worte a draft for The Censor from Hitman 2 which be found on this page. However, it hasn’t been added to the works YMVY page, yet.

Is there something wrong with my draft, was it overlooked or was there another reason? smile

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#196677: Dec 30th 2019 at 5:05:41 PM

[tup] Empress Lionstone. FINALLY, after the utter disappointment that was Lilith and her bizarre High-Heel–Face Turn, Simon learns from that mistake and blesses us with a lady who is bad to the core. (Unless this was made before Lilith- unsure). And she is a Distaff Counterpart to Emperor Palpatine, one of the greatest villains ever, to boot!

[up]@NTG, Did you put it on the Complete Monster Drafts page? If not, that may be why. Please go to the page and edit the writeup in. Then just give it two weeks. This is your first approved candidate, if I remember correctly, so you are new to this, but it is protocol to put approved candidate writeups on there.

Edited by MasterN on Dec 30th 2019 at 5:12:34 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#196678: Dec 30th 2019 at 5:07:52 PM

[up]Before Lilith. Nightside is one of his later series.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#196679: Dec 30th 2019 at 5:12:00 PM

[tup] to Tristan Mallory, Tyrant and Empress Lionstone the XIV.

Okay now time for my second FBI candidate and the one that I’m most confident will count both now and regardless of whatever happens in the series future.

After residents find a severely injured young woman running for her life, retracing her steps leads the FBI to discover a mass grave. Initially believing that there is a serial killer is on the loose, further investigation reveals the truth to be something much worse.

So as my first stupidly detestable crime show villain, I give you Stephan Tsarko.

Who Is he:

Stephan “Snake” Tsarko is The Heavy of “Prey”. A vicious, misogynistic psycho to fulfil his desires for the last three years Snake has worked as the front man and muscle for Russian businessman and oligarch Jacob Roscha secret human trafficking operation.

The arrangements are set up by Snake’s cousin Oleg back in Ukraine (who initially founded the operation and contacted Snake to run events in America), the operations runs by tricking Ukrainian women into believing they represent a company offering them employment in the United States, upon arrival they are picked up by Snake and his goons.

What Does He Do:

Upon getting hold of the women, Snake has them locked up in basements of buildings belonging to Roscha, then he and two of his cronies gang rape each women for three days straight to break their wills.

Afterwards they are branded (the marks cut into them with a heated blade) on their upper left chest to signify who they belong to and are forced into prostitution, either at parties held within Roscha’s buildings or rented out to clients who are led to believe this simply an ordinary prostitution service. Some of which are forced to undergo cosmetic surgery (especially breast implants) to increase their value, handled by Dr. Artem Bzovsky (who ironically is the only one to actually treat the women kindly).

Snake keeps the women terrified, making it clear he will personally kill them if they break any of the rules (namely attempting to ask for outside help) or if they become sick and don’t get better soon enough. Something he takes delight in doing. He would stab the women to death thirty times each, carve out their branding so the corpses couldn’t be linked back to activities and then burry them in the woods.

Snake’s done this to eighteen women so far, his most recent victim a mere three weeks before the episode. He kept their brands (as well as some locks of hair and photo’s) in a special box in his apartment, and specifically chose the burial site so that he could see it from his balcony, allowing him to relax in the evenings with a drink and cigar whilst he reminisced about all the murders he had committed.

His most recent victims are Hailey Nuriyev and her younger sister Brooke. Following Hailey hearing that Brooke was sick, she tried to persuade a young man named Jason to help them.

Snake dragged her out to the woods, and then stabbed her repeatedly, before burying her with the rest. However, he got so caught up in his own enjoyment that he didn’t bother to check that Hailey was actually dead. Managing to survive, she crawled out of the shallow grave, and was later found by a caring family, who alerted the authorities.

Realising the FBI was on to them, Snake took to covering his tracks having all the women moved to a beach house Roscha owned, he then killed Dr. Bzovsky by throwing him out of his apartment window. Fortunately he did so at the exact same time that Maggie and OA were outside to question the Doctor.

Separated, Maggie ended up catching Snake who attacked her, after disabling Maggie, Snake paused and almost strangled her to death whilst smiling, before being forced to run when OA found them. Getting his prints from the fight they managed to trace his identity. However, Snake had already gone to ground to avoid getting caught.

To lure him out the FBI set up a sting with Jubal possessing as a client who wanted a private session with several of Snake’s women. Snake personally delivered them to him at the motel, and was captured by Maggie and OA.

In interrogation Maggie managed to trick Snake into confessing to have tried to kill Hailey, by first playing on his sadism and then pretending that they had footage of him assaulting her before he tried to execute her. Uncaring Snake demanded to be returned to his cell, right up until Maggie pointed out to him that the operation over, and asked him what exactly he expected would happen to him when his boss discovered he was the reason that his business was ruined and he’d lost all his money.

Realising he needed protective custody, Snake agreed to reveal everything including the location of the lake house the remainder of the operation was keeping the women in.

Any Freudian Excuse or Redeeming Traits:

Absolutely nothing is given. His cousin is running things back in Ukraine and it’s implied the two formed a connection whilst Snake was visiting family in Kiev, but there is no indication that Snake cares for him. He never even mentions his cousin.

The most we have is a picture of him sharing a drink with Oleg and Eliza whilst on vacation.

Throughout the episode he’s constantly portrayed as a stoic but sadistic, smug misogynistic lunatic. He has no loyalty to his employer, and it’s analysed that he’s only working in this business to provide outlet for his own psychopathic nature, admitting he honestly loves others suffering it making him feel invincible and like a real man.

Heinous Standard:

Responsible for the deaths of nineteen people (with a twenty attempted) Snake has the second highest body count in the show so far. And that’s not getting into the multiple cases of rape and human trafficking (the ending reveals he’s done this to over fifty women).

Snake might not be the boss of the human trafficking ring but he is the front man who runs everything and the enforcer. He likewise comes across as the most heinous member.

Eliza Holliman is pretty unpleasant, being the one who manages the books and the running of the operation, but she lacks Snake’s other crimes with her involvement being purely administrative.

It was his cousin Oleg who started up the organisation but he never physically appears and has no direct involvement in the events.

Jacob Roscha himself is the boss and the one financing all of this, but just like Oleg he never actually appears.

Apart from that, all the others are just nameless goons who follow Snake’s orders.

Conclusion:

A Serial Killer/Rapist Human Trafficker, yeah I don’t think I even need to state it. He's the most repulsive figure in the entire show so far.

Still what do you think?

Edited by MGD107 on Dec 30th 2019 at 5:16:41 AM

NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#196680: Dec 30th 2019 at 5:13:03 PM

@Master N: Ah, that's what I forgot. Thank you. smile

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#196681: Dec 30th 2019 at 5:14:39 PM

[tup]Snake.

Fun fact I actually had a failure for an ep here from a ya book centred on human trafficking pretty recently.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#196684: Dec 30th 2019 at 5:17:36 PM

[tup] to Snake and Lionheart. You've gotta explain wormboy hell now, though

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
ErikModi Knight Bachelor from Where ComStar can't find me. Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Knight Bachelor
#196685: Dec 30th 2019 at 5:22:27 PM

Quick as I can: Picture a gigantic prison where the cells are so small you can't stand or lay down properly, no toilet, no clothes. And the warden is a gigantic genetically-engineered esper thing that's basically a giant maggot that fills an entire auditorium, and you're connected to it psychically by another genetically-engineered worm-thing in your brain so "Wormboy" can Mind Rape you with hellish psychic visions whenever the mood strikes him.

That's Silo 9, Wormboy Hell.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#196686: Dec 30th 2019 at 5:24:30 PM

Green doing horrifying shit like that is kinda his signature. I think it's basically even more fun seeing the bad guys get their assets kicked as a result.

What's weird is that his works are pretty optimistic and upbeat most of the time. The good guys win, the villains lose.

Edited by miraculous on Dec 30th 2019 at 5:26:19 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#196687: Dec 30th 2019 at 5:28:52 PM

[up][up] um, well, that's certainly something

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
ErikModi Knight Bachelor from Where ComStar can't find me. Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Knight Bachelor
#196688: Dec 30th 2019 at 5:28:56 PM

A hero is defined by the quality of his villains.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#196689: Dec 30th 2019 at 5:32:14 PM

[up]Yep.

[tup] to Snake (not that one).

Oh, and you are welcome, NTG.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
RoyalCharger Since: Dec, 2019
#196690: Dec 30th 2019 at 5:36:48 PM

[tup] Snake.

Since I count 13 [tup] to 0 [tdown] for my candidate now, I will probably draft an entry for the Mike Shinoda music video tyrant soon (also late thanks @ACW for the link. I am guessing you or an administrator at a good time will take care of putting the finalized draft entry in the subpage where it should be, after I place it drafts and it’s perfected?).

crankers Since: Mar, 2014
#196691: Dec 30th 2019 at 5:54:37 PM

So, Tara Markov gets 21[tup]s. I guess I'll write up her post soon then.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#196692: Dec 30th 2019 at 5:55:09 PM

[tup] Tristan, Lionstone, Protagonist and Snake

[tdown] Overlook

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#196693: Dec 30th 2019 at 6:39:58 PM

Found another unapproved Complete Monster pothole, this time on the Nightmare Fuel page for Slimyswampghost. I cut the pothole and linked to the thread. Anybody interested can do an EP if they want.

TBNY (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#196695: Dec 30th 2019 at 6:47:56 PM

Thanks for the clear up on the Overlook, but question, what are agency issues?

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#196696: Dec 30th 2019 at 6:50:01 PM

Weather or not a character can be said to have an actual choice to do evil. Beings that are Made of Evil or mind controlled are not considered to have Moral Agency.

Brainulator9 Short-Term Projects herald from US Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Short-Term Projects herald
#196697: Dec 30th 2019 at 7:15:54 PM

[up][up] It's explained in the "Agency" folder of the Administrivia page linked to in the OP. I'll copy-paste it for reference.

    Agency 
This is one of our more hotly debated topics, but the basic idea is that a character must be in control of their own actions, aware that they are doing wrong, and capable of choosing to act differently in order to be a Complete Monster. Let's take a few examples to show what we mean.

  • An animal acts on instinct and learned behavior. No matter how vicious it may be, it's not truly responsible in a moral sense for what it does.
  • Children, for the most part, lack developed moral judgment, so they can't be held fully responsible for their actions. Obviously, there are some notable exceptions.
  • Someone who is under the effects of Mind Control, Brainwashing, or who was programmed from birth is also not responsible for their actions, unless we learn later that it was More than Mind Control and they merely used it as an excuse to do what they'd wanted all along. The person who controlled them, however...
  • Someone who is clinically insane might not be held criminally responsible for their actions, and the same standard applies to this trope. If they would be judged "not guilty by reason of insanity", then they can't be a Complete Monster.
  • Elemental forces of evil, like devils and demons, may be compelled by their nature to act as they do, and thus lack the capacity to choose a different path. This can vary by work, of course.
  • Robots and other automata, such as The Undead, are essentially pre-programmed, and so are not making choices. Robots or undead that are intelligent/free-willed enough to exercise choice may qualify, though.

In a nutshell: is the character aware of the morality of their actions, are they in control of their own behavior, and could they choose to act other than they do?

Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#196698: Dec 30th 2019 at 7:19:25 PM

[up]Lionstone & Snake

BTW, whats the consensus for Ride!Evil Queen/Witch

Edited by nwotyzal on Dec 30th 2019 at 7:22:22 AM

Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#196699: Dec 30th 2019 at 7:24:55 PM

[up] Some votes yes, some abstained, majority voted no because she relies too much on Fridge Horror (so I think)

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019

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