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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#196151: Dec 26th 2019 at 9:28:25 PM

Okay. Basically Tar Baphon manipulates his servant Gildais (who hates him) into hiring thieves to aquire the shards of the Shattered Shield of Arnisant to use as part of a weapon called the Radiant Fire (basically a Fantastic Nuke).

EP 139: He tests the weapon on the Town of Roslar's coffin, obliterating the entire town and basically turning it into a wasteland full of zombies (the heroes get dragged in when Roslar's coffin is destroyed; thanks to an odd quirk of fate some of the shards from the shield piece used lodged into their souls. This becomes important later but it also ensured that their bodies survived and allowed them to return to the land of the living, which is the entire plot of the first adventure path.) Hundreds of people die in this incident.

Ep 140: Is basically the heroes surviving in the ruins before you link up with Aranzi and form an uneasy alliance with her.

Ep 141: Tar Baphon uses the Radiant Fire to blow up the capital of Lastwall (Vigil) in order to destroy the final Lesser seal reinforcing the prison holding him in place, causing thousands of deaths; the heroes are only able to evacuate a small fraction of the population that survived the explosion and ensuing hordes of undead. He also fires on Gallowspire, shattering the Great seal and finally freeing him to interact with the world again.

Ep 142: Not a main crime but he apparently tortured a morrigna named Essarta for centuries for trying to claim his soul and suggesting he be held accountable to the same laws as common mortals. By the time the heroes encounter her she's a shattered wreck who attacks them and needs to be mercy killed. He shows up directly at the end and fights Aranzi, who goads him into using the Radiant Fire on her (she hopes it might be enough to grant). This results in the destruction of 3/4 of the Lich's own army, Aranzi's possible destruction, and if the heroes don't play their cards right Watcher Lord Ulthan II and his paladin army though the heroes survive thanks to Aranzi throwing them across the ocean to the continent of Arcadia, more specifically the nation of Xopatl so that they can seek out the Kamuru tree (the source of the Shield of Arnisant).

Ep 143: He doesn't directly show up. However the heroes learn a valuable way to stop him. Basically the shards in their bodies had some of Aroden's soul energy. Since the heroes soul had a similar "metaphysical frequency" it bound to their souls. If the frequency is flipped than the heroes will no longer just absorb negative energy but positive energy and it can effect the "frequency" of Tar Baphon's weapon. This means that IF the heroes can goad Tar Baphon into firing on THEM with the Radiant Fire, it will create a feedback loop that will cause the shard embedded in Tar-Baphon's own body to detonate. If that happens Tar-Baphon will be forever unable to use the weapon even if he comes back. The only problem is that unless you take a third option the heroes will have their souls obliterated in the explosion. Ultimately the heroes choose to do this (or at the very least have a small fraction their souls stored in the Kamuru tree). The heroes return home after defeating one of Tar-Baphon's minions Istravek (Who was sent over to research the tree).

As all of this is going on Lastwall collapses into anarchy, and Tar Baphon uses ANOTHER blast of the Radiant Fire to incinerate the fortress of Hammer Rock (for added dickery he planted the shield shard needed on a refugee family) so that he could gain access to the fortress of Fallowdeep and recruit more armies. He than puts his endgame into effect. Send his army to attack Absalom and claim the Starstone so he can ascend to godhood. Fortunately Lyanthari the minion in charge of Fallowdeep thinks Tar-Baphon needs a lesson in humility and so refuses to let three of the armies stored there join the battle right away, giving the heroes the chance to (if they play their cards right) wipe out all three armies and recruit Gildais into helping them

Ep 144: The heroes make it to Fallowdeep and do their thing to hinder the Whispering Tyrant's armies before using the teleportation circles to go to Absolam, where the Tyrant is already launching his invasion. The heroes explain the plan to the commanders and put it into action. They kill lieutenants, destroy siege engines, thwart an attempt to smuggle a shard into the city as a contingency, and generally make a niusance of themselves in the most high profile ways imaginable (even claiming a shard and the horns of Nagara, meaning that Tar-Baphon no longer has those horn things.) If you destroyed ALL of the reinforcements and recruit Gildais he's already extremely pissed off at you. Eventually things climax at a giant pyramid in the Cairnlands. Tar Baphon drops all subtlety and tries to kill you, blowing a hole in the pyramid and attacking you with a giant demon. At this point the heroes have to fight the guy and the demon and depending on how things go you injure him enough to force a retreat, at which point Tar Baphon goes "fuck it" and triggers the nuke.....playing right into the heroes hands. The ensuing explosion destroys Tar-Baphon's mortal body, severs the shard in his hand from him AND Wipes out a large chunk of his army.

Afterwards: Tar Baphon DOES reform since his phylactery is intact, but the Radiant Fire is forever denied to him. He's currently trying to rebuild his powerbase (he attempted to recruit the orcs again but they say no and repulse the force sent to conquer them.)

LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#196152: Dec 26th 2019 at 9:29:18 PM

Personally I would have preferred it if the Heroic Sacrifice permanently destroyed the piece of crap but oh well. At the very least he's been BADLY inconvenienced

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#196153: Dec 26th 2019 at 10:03:38 PM

Yeah... I'd say Jurgen is a [tdown]

Even in the context of the game, he's still programmed to be a villain.

Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#196154: Dec 26th 2019 at 10:05:39 PM

Now that it's been two weeks since it was posted, I will share my proposal.

What's the work?

The Defiler is a short story by AustinDR about an avid bookworm who runs into a morbidly obese but affable nobleman, who offers to show him some forbidden literature. But the narrator realizes that something is extremely off about this man as he hobbles away, casting a grotesque shadow ...

Who is the Defiler? What has he done?

It's fucking Y'golonac!

Though he insists on being called "the Defiler". Many of you already know who he is, but for those who don't, let me catch you up to speed: the Defiler is a Great Old One whose depravity is far too human. Lord of perversion, icon of human decay. The living embodiment of an Aristocrats joke. His true form — which he claims to be incomprehensible — is mercifully sealed behind a brick wall somewhere, but that doesn't stop him from taking advantage of human perversion and possessing curious hosts. He loves to indulge in rape and serial murder as a pastime, and his followers are very much in the same boat. Anyone is fair game for him and his monstrous deeds. Men, women, children, it's all the same to him. Though he does seem to have quite a sweet tooth for children. So much as reading or speaking his name is enough to summon him. Yeah ... you just read it.

He comes off as a pleasant enough fellow when he runs into the narrator, inviting him out to his house with the promise of pornographic literature. As soon as the narrator goes inside, he regrets it. He finds the walls are composed of red meat, and in several rooms, the Defiler's cultists are indulging in the Seven Deadly Sins taken to their gruesome extreme. He only gets as far as the lust (a violent orgy), gluttony (cannibalism), and sloth (self-explanatory, and not necessarily Se7en-level horrific) rooms before the Defiler sits him down at a table.

Here, the Defiler explains his true nature to the hero, who of course doesn't believe him, then he drags him down to the basement to show him the half-eaten bodies of a series of missing children, boasting that he "got hungry after he had his fun". When the hero asks what happened to his host, the Defiler explains that:

"He will forever be trekking that long path between life and death. I maneuvered him like a flesh puppet subservient to my rule. I do wonder though if he ever was made to watch his body cozy up with strangers?"

Then he breaks through the body of the nobleman, revealing the putrid, towering form of an impossibly fat, headless monster with mouths on his palms, and presenting a book before the hero that contains his real name (it's fucking Y'golonac), trying to goad him into speaking it to free him from his prison. Just when the hero is about to do it, he reaches for a knife among the bodies of the children and cuts out his own tongue and stabs the Defiler just as he attempts to devour him. As the Defiler's avatar "dies", he taunts the hero that he can never truly die, and that he's going to "defile some other poor sap", his house collapsing and taking his worshipers with him.

Mitigating qualities?

He claims to the hero that he's "eldritch to [his] thought processes", but while his true form might be, nothing else really is. And his worshipers are fully expendable to him, too, since he pulls a Taking You with Me on them at the end. In other words, it's fucking Y'golonac.

Heinous standard?

He briefly touches on the other Great Old Ones, whose return would spell doom for the human race, but he goes way beyond what horrors they would bring, and he's far more petty than any of them. He's a Serial Killer/Serial Rapist who just so happens to be an Eldritch Abomination, so whatever fate he'd hold in store for the human race, I'd imagine not even Cthulhu or any of the other actively violent Great Old Ones would bring about such a horrible apocalypse. Matter of fact, I'd even say that he's more in tune with the worst of human nature than fellow CM Nyarlathotep.

Verdict?

It's fucking Y'golonac.

Edited by Stellarvore on Dec 26th 2019 at 12:09:25 PM

LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#196155: Dec 26th 2019 at 10:13:18 PM

[tup]Y'gol

Edited by LordYAM on Dec 26th 2019 at 10:13:26 AM

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#196156: Dec 26th 2019 at 10:17:22 PM

[tup] Y'g. Thanks for driving me insane, again.

KingofNightmares Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#196158: Dec 26th 2019 at 10:57:21 PM

[tup] Y'g

Sticking to what I said in PMs and saying no to Jurgen

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#196159: Dec 26th 2019 at 11:57:04 PM

[tup] Destro and Y'gy

[tdown] Jurgen

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#196161: Dec 27th 2019 at 12:58:29 AM

We've had Whoopi Goldberg and Nick Jonas each play a CM; I think Carrey could.

[tup] Destro; another one for Christopher Eccleston, who I think has at least one CM already.

Stellarvore, just FYI, we're usually more lenient about the 2-week rule when it comes to troper works, as long as you check with the thread first.

[tup] Y'gy. Where did this "It's fucking Y'golonac" begin?

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
ErikModi Knight Bachelor from Where ComStar can't find me. Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Knight Bachelor
#196165: Dec 27th 2019 at 4:48:41 AM

I have another, non-BT one

What's the work?

Aliens (Steve Perry Trilogy), novelizations of the first Dark Horse Comics Aliens comics. The comics were originally written to follow an older Hicks, grown-up Newt, and eventually Ripley, but after Alien³, they were patched and retconned to follow Wilks and Billie instead, as well as an android marine named Mitch. The novels adapt and expand on the plot from the comics, in which corporate malfeasance finds Earth overrun by aliens, and follows Wilks and Billie as they try and survive the collapse of Earth, the evacuation to colonies and outposts, and finally fight back against the infestation.

Who is General Thomas A.W. Spears? What did he do?

General Spears was born out of a government program to breed superior soldiers, the "A.W." in his name stands for "artificial womb." He's risen through the ranks to command of Third Base, a top-secret military installation on a remote planetoid. Wilks, Billie, and Mitch had to stow away on a military transport leaving Earth, just ahead of the Alien horde overruning that particular installation. When they come out of cryosleep, they find that the flotilla they'd left in the middle of is nowhere to be seen. They also find that some of their drone ship's cargo was four people still in cryosleep, iced as low as they could be without killing them. Because they were infected with Alien embryos. Which have now hatched despite the intensely deep cryosleep. They defeat the Aliens, and arrive at Third Base, where Spears is none to pleased to see them at first, upset that they destroyed his "wild strain" Alien specimens.

Spears warms up to them a bit when he realizes they, especially Wilks and Billie, have had run-ins with Aliens on multiple occasions, thinking they can be useful to his project. And what is his project? Pretty simple, actually: breed captive Aliens, teach them to follow orders, attack on command, and even use firearms (they suck, but he hopes they'll get better with practice). He does this by controlling the Queen. Threatening to burn her eggs gets her attention, and he can burn several parts of her nest at will, or just blow the whole thing up. In these novels, the Aliens communicate telepathically, so the Queen can control her drones at distance and without line-of-sight. The Queen controls the drones, and Spears controls the Queen.

Of course, as if that all wasn't ill-advised enough, it quickly becomes clear things aren't all going swimmingly on Third Base. Wilks quickly realizes that Third Base is woefully understaffed for its size, given remote Colonial Marine bases tend to be overstaffed for the comfort of warm bodies around. And the obvious question is "where is Spears getting his Aliens," given how they reproduce. Well, that's quite simple too, actually: there's only one punishment for infraction of regulations on Third base.

You go into the hive.

And Spears' soldiers are starting become convinced that some of those regulations only exist in Spears' mind.

There's a civilian colony on the planetoid as well, tasked with seeing to the atmosphere processor that provides air for both the colony and Third Base. Three deserters make their way there, hoping to beg, borrow, or steal the civilian's shuttle and get off planet. Well, they get a bit of a surprise. See, there's no civilian colony anymore. Once it's up and running, the atmosphere processor is fully automated, so the civilians became redundant. So Spears sicced some of his new Aliens on them, let them establish a second hive, so he could study the difference between the wild and tame. He's also got a bunch of stuff stashed there for his commutes back and forth, as well as building his Alien army.

Spears' XO, Major Powell, talks Wilks into leading a mutiny while Spears is away dealing with the deserters. Things go pretty well, and soon Wilks and Billy are outside on the airless rock, waiting for Spears' flyer to approach so they can shoot it down with their crawler's guns. Unfortunately, Spears is a paranoid bastard, and learns of the mutiny through a secret comm channel that could only come in clear when something's wrong. He has a backup stealth flyer and sends his regular one ahead on remote. Wilks and Billie take out the empty drone, Spears' stealth ship takes out their crawler, though they bail out just in time.

Spears leads an assault to retake Third Base. Soldiers approach, claiming loyalty to him. . . he shoots them, since any chance they might be insincere is too big a risk. Mitch, in the control room, futzes with lights and gravity to throw Spears' assault off. Spears notes in internal monologue that one cannot realistically prepare for going from full-G to one-tenth-G between steps, but when one of his soldiers caught in that trap breaks his neck, paralyzed but alive, Spears leaves him. They could fix his spine, but in Spears' words, "You fucked up, son." Oh, and Spears has released all the Aliens from containment, so odds are whatever finds this paralyzed, abandoned soldier, he's not going to be getting medical attention.

Spears ends the mutiny and retakes Third Base, but it's pretty much a write-off. That's okay, though. . . he wanted more time to build up his Alien army, but a General always wants more time, more men, more materiel. So Spears has the Queen and the cream of his Alien crop loaded onto one ship. He has his loyal human troops loaded on another, and he has the lead ship all to himself. As liftoff preparations finish, Spears flicks a special switch he installed on his flagship. This switch causes the engines of every other starship, except his and his Aliens', to slag themselves. He strands everyone on Third Base, including his own loyal human troops, because he just can't trust there aren't any disloyal soldiers still there. . . and he's pretty much lost interest in commanding human troops, anyway. The Aliens are far superior in every respect, but especially in loyalty.

As the ships lift off, he gets panicked calls from his stranded troops about the "engine malfunction," but he's too enthralled by his celebratory cigar to really care. They also report the Aliens are now rampaging, apparently aware the Queen is gone and going berserk over it. Spears thinks that's interesting. . . but his good cigar is more so.

Wilks and Billie managed to stow away on the Aliens' ship (they're all in stasis, so no worries), and prepare to take out Spears. Unfortunately, he's still crazy paranoid, so is alerted to them before they even plan to move against him, and is aware of them coming even as they tried to avoid pinging the proximity sensors. Spears gets the drop on them but they manage to survive and drive him off, but they're locked in the aft of the ship, away from anything that they can damage to get back at him or get out. Wilks wrangles an escape pod from Spears by claiming he left several grenades wired to important systems on the Aliens' ship. Spears compliments them, stating that "You can tell people you went up against me and lived. Someday, that'll mean something." Even after Spears checks the locations and knows it was a bluff, he's impressed.

Spears leads his Aliens down to Earth for their first, glorious battle against the wild strain. He's already thinking about how this victory will be remembered, how he'll be known as the man who liberated Earth, and how his proof of concept will get him all the backing and funding he wants from whatever remains of humanity's military brass. And if it doesn't. . . well, sic 'em, boys. He leads his Alien troops in full dress uniform complete with sword and a pair of pearl-handled revolvers. But strangely, the Aliens aren't listening to his orders. They're pulling the Queen out of her cage on Spears' ship. They're letting her out. Spears decapitates one of the Aliens with his sword (the most badass thing he does the whole book, and he's actually got quite a list of villainous moments of awesome), but the Queen pretty quickly grabs him and tears his head off, before leading Spears' "absolutely loyal army" off into the wilderness of Earth to found a new hive. At the end, Spears just couldn't comprehend how he lost control of the situation. . . but the Queen was more patient than he was, and as soon as she knew she had no eggs Spears could burn, his control over her vanished.

Oh, and the man has a Doctor Doom-level ego, honestly believing every combatsit he gets into needs to be recorded for posterity, as future military historians will be studying and learning from his brilliant tactics and inspired strategies for generations to come. And he certainly is extremely capable, though no one's that awesome.

Heinousness?

Kinda depends on where you land, honestly. Sure, the Aliens are basically a Horde of Alien Locusts that overwhelm any ecosystem they're introduced to and turn everything into incubators for their young, but the series has pretty consistently played humans as the real villains. While the Aliens are just doing what they were designed to do, humans actively dick each other over for their own motives. And in Spears' case, he not only sacrifices his own human troops to breed more Aliens, he has no problem leaving them all to die a variety of slow, painful deaths on an airless rock in a heavily damaged base overrun by pissed-off xenomorphs. His cigar is more important to him than human lives. His army moving on to infest Earth alongside all the other Aliens really doesn't matter. . . there's millions of them by now at least, a few hundred more isn't going to make the situation any more dire. What interests me is his more-or-less stated goal to launch a military coup with his tame Aliens if he doesn't get his way. Hell, he states to himself at one point that for all practical purposes, he is humanity's remaining military. Not "for all he knows," not "in all liklihood," is. Either he dismisses some fair compelling evidence that there's still some kind of intact chain-of-command out there, or he honestly believes that they're irrelevant when compared to the unbridled shining awesome that is General Thomas A.W. Spears. Now, his plan was never going to work since he never really controlled the Aliens, but the fact that he was considering it. . . brrr.

His main competition in this series would come from the morons who let Earth get overrun with Aliens in the first place, but that wasn't malice, just stupidity. And even the stupidity is negligible. The Company had obtained an Alien specimen, which grew into a Queen, which they were studying in a remote, heavily-defended facility equipped with a nuclear self-destruct. Well, the Aliens communicate telepathically, and some humans can pick up on that. A cult grew, devoted to the Aliens, and stormed the facility in a Zerg Rush. Several of them deliberately got infected, and other cultists dragged them out. Enough cleared the blast zone that small hives began to crop up, and then it was just a losing war against the most invasive species in fiction. The Company did send a mercenary, backed by a crew of crazy-illegal non-First-Lawed synthetics, to stop the military operation to recover an Alien specimen to avoid competition, and were planning on selling the benefits of their Alien research to anyone who could pay, but that's more "par for the course" for the Alien-verse.

Mitigating Qualities?

Spears is another textbook Sociopath, skilled with emotional manipulation but absolutely lacking in real empathy. He does manage to inspire a fair amount of loyalty in a large chunk of his troops. . . though the role "feed you to the baby Aliens" plays in that cannot be discounted. But what's most interesting to take a look at is his status as an artifically-birthed human. Details are sparse: we don't know if was genetically engineered, created through eugenics, or something else. We do know he was raised in basically a creche with others like him, and one of them was a huge bully towards young Tommy. Tommy killed him when he was nine. This is alluded to early in the book, when Spears notes that all of the A.W.'s went on to be Marines, except one who probably would have if he hadn't died in an accident. So either Spears made his murder look like an accident, or whoever was running the program decided that a nine-year-old murdering a bigger, stronger eleven-year-old was exactly what they wanted out of their prospective Super Soldiers and covered it up for him. Either way is chilling. We don't know much else about Spears' early life. The glimpses we see don't appear to be Soldier-level Training from Hell meant to turn kids into mindless, soulless killing machines, but this being the Alien-verse, I wouldn't rule it out. But we just don't know. It's also easy to read Spears as paranoid and delusional. The paranoia is in plain sight: hidden secret backup security cameras that let him follow a single group from a secret conversation in the bathroom all the way through and out of Third Base without missing beat, his backup stealth flyer, his backup communications channel, a food taster to make sure no one poisons him, etc. The delusional part is bit more subtle, but him following a rational-sounding train of thought and concluding that the Aliens might well look to him as messiah, his drive to be the savior of mankind and sic his pets on anyone who opposes him, and so on seem to strongly hint he has a steadily-growing God complex. It should be noted, while he can be considered both paranoid and delusional, he does not have "paranoid delusions."

Conclusion?

I'm actually kind of torn between Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard. . . heinous as Spears is, he's just damn fun to read. By the end of Nightmare Asylum, the audience, and even to an extent Wilks and Billie, are almost rooting for Spears to actually pull it off, despite how many of his own troops he's killed to get here and how delusional and paranoid he is. But while Spears is an incredibly fun villain to read, he's still very much a villain, lacking many of the qualities that makes someone like Grand Admiral Thrawn a Magnificent Bastard. Thus, I think he fits here.

Edited by ErikModi on Dec 27th 2019 at 7:07:17 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#196166: Dec 27th 2019 at 4:52:28 AM

[tup] Spears and Defiler.

[tdown] Jurgen.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#196167: Dec 27th 2019 at 4:54:28 AM

Yes to Y'golonac. Abstain on Jurgen as I don't know anything about the series apart from the original.

Who was Eccleston's first? I mean I know the game version of Malekith counts but was it him voicing the character or was it a stand in.

Edit: Yes to Spears as well.

Edited by Bullman on Dec 27th 2019 at 7:09:25 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#196168: Dec 27th 2019 at 5:07:11 AM

Anyway remember SNAFU: survival of the fittest in which lighty put up a version of dracula awhile ago. Well their are a ton of other books in that series. SNAFU is an anthgoy series where the military fight against monsters. Most aren't sapient, have odd morality or are gdvs. That said I have someone from the book SNAFU: Unnatural selection. From the short sTory Vermin by Richard Lee Byers

Who is Ibrahim?

During the crusades, a siege is occurring between the Frank's who've taken over a city from the Turks. The leader of the Frank's Adalric is trying to keep the peace and avoid his soldiers harrassing the populace. Well the leader of the Turks, zeki is trying desperately to get the city back to save face with his father as well as protect the population.

Anyway he's approached by a mysterious Imam named Ibrahim who says he can take it back at a cost. Ibrahim convinces Zeki to have him sacrifice some of their Frankish prisoners. Ibrahim channels an Old one and uses the lives of these three soldiers to create scorpion monsters which he can use to take on the Franks. Adalric beats them off though at theleast cost of some of his men.

With this Ibrahim becomes more bold, trying to convince zeki to have him sacrifice some of the citizens themslves. Each life taken increases the power of the scorpions. Zeki refuses as this was far too much a step too far and he refuses to sacrifice innocent peip. Ibrahim then attaches a deadly scorpion to his back to force him to abide or it will kill him. Later that night, Zeki kills it be slamming his back into a wall and goes to confront Ibrahim who reveals his true plan after killing a squadron of zeki's soldiers.

“It didn’t have to be like this,” Ibrahim said. Even speaking normally, his voice now hinted at the inhuman clicks and buzzes his sorcery required. “I truly would have made you a hero and rid our land of the infidels.”

Terror was supposed to dry a man’s mouth, but Zeki still needed to spit away more excess saliva before replying. “At what cost?”

“In your lifetime, relatively little. In a generation or two, the nature of your faith will change, and ultimately, strengthened by the devotion of multitudes, the Old One will return from exile.”

“All because of the help you provided? We don’t need it!”

“Possibly not, but someone, the Governor, the Sultan, or one of the Emirs, will want it and quickly come to depend on it. My influence can only grow from that point forward.”

“It will never happen. Your ambush killed the soldiers lying here, but I have fifty more.” “Even if you could make it back to rally them, it wouldn’t matter. I explained that with every offering, my patron grows more generous, and even undertaken on the fly in the daylight, these last few proved remarkably efficacious. Let me show you.”

Ibrahim then goes One-Winged Angel and morphs into a scorpion man thing and unleashes his scorpions on the city intending to kill berry man , women and child in the city to cut out lose ends beof he tries this again in a new city.

This forces adalric and zeki to join forces to protect the citizens. Both forces are able to fend off and draft scopions. Aim for the back or side. They then go after Ibrahim and in a patched battle are able to kill him and light hin on fire. Destroying his influence and saving the city. As thanks zeki let's adlaric leave the city without harm.

Freudian Excuse ?'

Meh.

Other redeeming qualities ?

Nah. Hes a creepy fuck and him worshipping said old one is so he can get power.

Heinous standard ?

Oh yeah. The anthology stories have absolutely nothing in common. So it's unfair to compare him. But most villains are just wild animals or non sapient monster.

But Ibrahim would stI'll count. He commits horrific human sacrifices, kills dozens, tries to kill a city of hundreds when things go wrong, intends to turn corrupt an entire religion to human sacrifice for the old one to rule. It's says alot that zeki and adlrpnic (neituer of them are bad people )put their prejudices aside to take him down. Dude is pure evil.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#196170: Dec 27th 2019 at 5:09:33 AM

I could be wrong, but I SWEAR Eccleston had one not too long ago.

As for Spears, maybe he's both? We do have some crossovers.

ErikModi Knight Bachelor from Where ComStar can't find me. Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Knight Bachelor
#196171: Dec 27th 2019 at 5:16:22 AM

Huh, I thought Complete Monster would disqualify from Magnificent Bastard and vice versa. Interesting.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#196172: Dec 27th 2019 at 5:20:36 AM

Nope. Check with the MB thread, but as long as they aren't rapists, bigots, or unnecessarily sadistic, they can be both. Hans Gruber may be the best example.

EDIT: [tup] Ibrahim.

Edited by ACW on Dec 27th 2019 at 8:25:30 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#196173: Dec 27th 2019 at 5:26:37 AM

[up]Probably is.

Switching to abstain on Jurgen. Other than the moral agency issue, he seemed too perfect that if that wasn't there, there's no way he couldn't count. Well...you can't blame a guy for trying!

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#196175: Dec 27th 2019 at 5:30:18 AM

[tup] to Ibrahim, Spears and the Defiler

[tdown] to Jurgen

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA

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