During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
The first book, Conqueror, is all about said rise to power, and is probably the best book in the series on account of that. It's been so damn long since I've read it though, that I can't rightly recall everything that happens in it. On a sidenote, one of his younger brothers is far scarier than Temujin/Genghis is. Cold little bugger.
edited 28th Nov '13 8:58:31 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
On the My Little Pony Fanworks Monster page, there's an article for Pinkie Pie from Smile HD. Does she count? You can watch the video [1]
.
edited 29th Nov '13 7:03:08 AM by AustinDR
Pardon my Single-Issue Wonk-ery (double issue?), but Artix Entertainment and When They Cry?
- Chaos Dragonlord Vath not only enslaved the dwarves, but also his own dragon. He doesn't care how much pain and suffering he's causing the dwarves in the slightest and doesn't even care if they starve to death, as long as they can forge enough Chaos Gemeralds to keep him happy. Worse yet, Vath even threatens to enslave the rest of Lore and will throw the bodies of anyone who tries to foil his plans down to the dwarves as a demonstration of what happens to those who oppose his might.
- Chaos Lord Krellenos chaorrupted his brother Antiphuus and allowed his kin to blame the Horcs for his death. He proceeded to steal an Arashtite ore of the Accord of the Dark Sun from the Ravine Temple to chaorrupt friends and family alike, doing so to his family and to the Horcs as well.He began using the chaorrupted generals of both sides of the Alliance to try to shatter said Alliance and get the Hero blamed for it all. Krellenos proved willing to sacrifice anything — even family — for Chaos power all while starting a huge war.
EDIT: Acw, Stop. Jumping. The Gun.
Now we have a whole page with two entries before we got it sorted and rewritten, meaning we need to cutlist the page and replace it. This was a major problem when Krystoff was part of the thread and it needs to stop now.
Edit 2: I have taken the liberty of having our latest keeps and cuts put into the Edit thread. I also noticed there was consensus months ago to cut the Monster.Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha page so I'm taking care of that, as well as the Monster.Naruto stuff. Others like Glandyth, Lord Foul, General Kehck, etc are submitted now
edited 29th Nov '13 11:30:24 AM by Lightysnake
Who was/is Krystoff?
EDIT: Also, shouldn't the Shadow King entry go under Marvel Animation? Or is it a different universe?
EDIT 2: PS: For Beyond Good And Evil was the Dom Z priest voted down or just not discussed?
EDIT 3: Anyway, I added Kehck's entry to Beyond Good & Evil and the revised writeups to Artix (I'll hold off on requesting the change in the locked pages thread for Artix, but whenever you're ready). I also cut the entries from DragonFable and added the revised ones to AdventureQuest Worlds,
edited 29th Nov '13 12:47:44 PM by ACW
Well, a Google site search didn't turn up any mention of the priest.
EDIT: And I'm PRETTY sure Wolverine And The X Men is Marvel
edited 29th Nov '13 1:32:54 PM by ACW
So I just beat The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds. I glanced at its page, and what do I find.
- Complete Monster: Yuga. While Hilda merely wanted to save Lorule at the cost of Hyrule's survival, Yuga never cared about his world's fate, only to use the Triforce to recreate it in his image. Following his absorption of Hilda, who wielded the Triforce of Wisdom, he vows the claim the Triforce of Courage and use his newfound godhood to spread destruction across Hyrule. Along with that, he imprisons several soldiers in walls and shows no regard for any of the lives around him.
Eh, I don't know about Yuga. Everything up there is accurate, and I can't really think of anything obvious to disqualify him. On the other hand he doesn't do anything special besides standard evil stuff and doesn't impress overall. No opinion on him yet.
Remember Visser Three? Well, I was over at Even Evil Has Standards and he's got an entry there, and holy crap it's actually a good one. Apparently, toward the end of the series he actually calls out the good guys on applying What Measure Is a Mook? to his people, the Yeerks:
->Visser Three: No. Of course not. You merely blow up ground-based Yeerk pools and kill thousands. And then another seventeen thousand of our brothers here on this ship. Defenseless, harmless, unhosted Yeerks. Murdered. But you don't kill prisoners.
edited 29th Nov '13 8:18:12 PM by HamburgerTime
Oh, no way. That's such hypocritical garbage and obviously from him taunting them on their 'moral lapse' given how many times he slaughtered the helpless. He was willing to butcher countless humans to get his way. All he's doing is enjoying how far they've fallen.
edited 29th Nov '13 8:34:20 PM by Lightysnake
Yes, he's a monster toward humans, but like Arlong it's entirely possible he cares about his own race. Some EEHS entries are pretty half-assed (for instance, Darth Sidious is listed because Mara Jade, who was quite brainwashed by him, claimed he considered Mind Rape dishonorable) but this one's actually convincing, to me at least.
edited 29th Nov '13 8:38:04 PM by HamburgerTime
I think that entry has seriously confused "mock the heroes" with "standards"
Put it this way. in the second book, one subordinate tells the Visser they'll lift off ina certain amount of time. The Visser angrily cuts him down, lets his other yeerks eat the poor guy alive in their Taxxon bodies and then demands the next guy get them lifted off faster.
edited 29th Nov '13 8:44:19 PM by Lightysnake
I was asked by another user to post here explaining why I had listed the character of Rosalie as a Complete Monster on the pages for The Cat Who books. Rosalie is the ex-wife of Arch Riker, main character Qwilleran's best friend. It's explained in the books that when she and Arch divorced, Rosalie had their two pet cats put to sleep just so Arch couldn't have them. That kind of wanton cruelty and disregard for two living creatures makes her a Complete Monster to me.
It does not, however, make her a CM by the standards of the site. An epic bitch, but not a Complete Monster.
@HT
Visser Three acquired and morphed a "yeerkbane" an animal that eats Yeerks and only Yeerks. He uses it to cannibalise subordinates who fail him. Or look at him funny. He's trying to pull a Not So Different more than anything else. In short yeah, that EEHS entry should definitely go. Burn it.
edited 29th Nov '13 10:24:00 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Im general, from what I know about the Khan, in a fictional work about him I don't think any of his opponents from his time as ruler rise enough above him in heinousness to qualify (his day was very much a blood'n'guts, kill-or-be-killed survival of the fittest sort of day with no real good guys) BUT any antagonist from his rise to power, which is actually a pretty cool story, probably could due to the scale being smaller.