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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Kookosbanaani Since: May, 2015
#195726: Dec 22nd 2019 at 3:49:36 AM

I found this on Cioccolata's character page.

  • Even Evil Has Loved Ones: Cioccolata may treat Secco more like a pet than a person, but he's a beloved pet — warped and twisted as it is, Cioccolata really cares for the man. He even says "I love you" in his last message to Secco. Too bad Secco doesn't feel the same way...

There has been an edit wars of some sorts going on back and forth regarding this trope in his character page and it's really starting to get old. It's safe to say that having read the manga and watched the anime, this is just an Alternate Character Interpretation which has nothing to do with being a Complete Monster. He doesn't treat Secco as his equal during his character arc, just as a dog, and constantly berates him for not doing his job right. Him saying "I love you" in his last voicemail is mostly just him trying to motivate Secco to fight the heroes in case something happened to him, which even Secco seems to be aware of as his first reaction upon hearing on Cioccolata's demise is "did you really think I'd feel sorry for you". And Cioccolata's only way of showing affection to Secco is literally just tossing him sugar cubes and... scratching his back. Summa summarum, it's too ambiguous for this trope to even apply.

Edited by Kookosbanaani on Dec 22nd 2019 at 3:51:12 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#195727: Dec 22nd 2019 at 4:45:36 AM

Yes to Cooley, Andries Rhoodie and Skeletor.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#195728: Dec 22nd 2019 at 5:20:02 AM

If Barnier counts, this needs to be changed or cut:

  • Even Evil Has Loved Ones: While "love" is a strong word, Barnier has a soft spot for Ceren, as she is probably the only person he ended up liking in his whole life, so much that he did try to save her. It didn't stop him from killing her in cold blood in order to harm Jacopo, although he does this knowing that Ceren approves.

Abstain for now.

[tup] Cooley, Rhoodie, Sheletor (hey, it's Campbell "Dr. X" Lane!).

Seems like Leverett's a cut. I also gotta use Hell on Earth and Hellhole Prison for Velez. Who's Taylor?

AlmightyKingPrawn I can chase the wind, I can race the rain from Down at Fraggle Rock *clap clap* Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
I can chase the wind, I can race the rain
#195729: Dec 22nd 2019 at 5:20:44 AM

[tup] Skeletor

She/her. Profile pic is by Richard Michael Gomez @StarmansArt. Please watch Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock. https://youtu.be/Vm92JNgPbqk
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#195730: Dec 22nd 2019 at 5:57:38 AM

[tup] Rhoodie and Skeletor.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#195732: Dec 22nd 2019 at 6:33:53 AM

[tup] to Tom, Rhoodie, and Skeletor

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#195733: Dec 22nd 2019 at 6:34:39 AM

So good news. The new The Dresden Files'' book will be released on July 14th, 2020 just in time for the series 20th anniversary.

After all these years it's finally coming.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#195735: Dec 22nd 2019 at 7:04:27 AM

Writeup for Skeletor:

The New Adventures of He-Man: Skeletor is an ever present archenemy, who desires to conquer the Tri-Solar Galaxy. Immediately becoming the right hand of the leader of Evil Mutants of Denebria, called Flogg, Skeletor uses him in his attempts to destroy He-Man and take over the planet Primus, while openly planning to betray Flogg someday and take all the power for himself. Creating many plans to lower the shields of Primus to allow Mutants to conquer it, Skeletor, upon briefly taking over Primus, attempts to destroy the village for hiding He-Man from him and planned to destroy the city of Levitan by raising it up with a tractor beam to the cosmos and dropping it to the ground. After being driven off, Skeletor tried to destroy Primus and all life on it several times, first by trying to use Energon to transform Primus into energy sun and then by trying to move Primus from its orbit, to cause catastrophes on the planet. At one point trying to kill off all of the Mutant army, including his supposed love interest, and the Galactic Guardians by luring them into a prison ship and attaching the magnetic generator to the it, to lure a comet upon the ship, Skeletor causes chaos and destruction on several planets, stopping at nothing in his attempts to take more power.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Dec 22nd 2019 at 6:04:43 PM

KingofNightmares Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#195736: Dec 22nd 2019 at 7:54:30 AM

I cut an unapproved entry from Lord of the Flies

"It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times?"
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#195737: Dec 22nd 2019 at 7:57:41 AM

He was already cut.

Brainulator9 Short-Term Projects herald from US Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Short-Term Projects herald
#195738: Dec 22nd 2019 at 8:12:15 AM

I say cut the Cioccolata EEHLO entry and add a note saying not to reinsert it.

Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#195739: Dec 22nd 2019 at 8:27:11 AM

@ACW Taylor is the recently-approved Klansman. Yeah, I think those tropes fit Velez.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#195740: Dec 22nd 2019 at 8:32:19 AM

Since we only have 17 this week, I'll combine it with next week's for one superbatch to close out the year, if nobody minds.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#195741: Dec 22nd 2019 at 8:32:49 AM

Sounds good.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#195743: Dec 22nd 2019 at 9:07:33 AM

Haven't posted here in awhile. I effortposted Tark for Tricky Business.

  • Complete Monster: Tark is a low-level driver of a drug boat. Tired of this, he decides to rob his bosses in a major drug deal. In the middle of a tropical storm, he has three of his associates beat up and knock out two guards of the boat. He mutilates and castrates one guard, and decides to force the other guard to swallow his own blood with his hands tied behind his back. When he gets to the drop-off point of the deal, he murders everybody crewing the operation. He then proceeds to betray and kill each and every one of his associates and even tries to kill some innocent people who get in the way. Motivated simply by greed, no one in the novel outshines Tark when it comes to sadism or disloyalty.

Could we change the mutilates redirect from Cold-Blooded Torture to Nasal Trauma, considering he cuts off a nose?

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
ThePest179 Since: Jul, 2015
#195744: Dec 22nd 2019 at 9:13:01 AM

Well, time to write the entry.

  • The Guns of the South: Andries Rhoodie is the leader of the South African Neo-Nazi group AWB who seeks to create a permanent bastion of white supremacy in the world. To this end he steals a time machine and travels back to 1864, arming the Confederacy with AK-47s to help them win The American Civil War. After this plan succeeds, Rhoodie and his group buy hundreds of blacks slaves, promptly torturing, starving, and raping them out of sheer racial hatred. When Robert E. Lee becomes Confederate President on a platform of gradual emancipation for slaves, Rhoodie sends a team of commandos to kill him and the entire Confederate government, culminating in a massacre in which dozens of bystanders, including Lee's infirm wife, are killed. With the Confederacy having turned against them, Rhoodie has his group wage a war that gets thousands of Confederate soldiers killed out of spite.

Kookosbanaani Since: May, 2015
#195745: Dec 22nd 2019 at 9:23:24 AM

Was Roger from Lord of the Flies cut? If so, then why?

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#195746: Dec 22nd 2019 at 9:28:05 AM

Insufficient heinousness.

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#195747: Dec 22nd 2019 at 9:29:00 AM

There were a few reasons brought up back then.

  • All the boys try to murder Ralph near the end, so Roger killing Piggy doesn't really stand out as much.

  • All the boys, Roger included, break down and cry when they are rescued.

  • The original point that I brought up is that Roger simply doesn't pass the base line heinous standard. One murder and some bullying doesn't cross the line.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#195748: Dec 22nd 2019 at 9:30:08 AM

According to this link, he was deemed not heinous enough and his agency was affected. Discussion started here.

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#195749: Dec 22nd 2019 at 9:31:26 AM

He has agency problems ? Since when.

Anyway I agree with cutting Rodger. The point of the book is anyone can sink that low when their free of civilization.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#195750: Dec 22nd 2019 at 9:32:49 AM

I suppose we could make that change for Tricky Business. I'll request it.


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