During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Ezaki and I think I'll give a
to Brad as well
- Route End (2017): Renri Ezaki is a self-proclaimed dark reflection of Tachibana, representing melancholic death and nihilism in contrast to his resurrective life and altruism. Masquerading as a quirky, but professional mental health expert, Ezaki's hobby is to push his own patients to suicide as the real identity of END, using their own painful memories against them and then subtly suggesting that they end their lives, doing this to Akina's brother, Taji's co-worker and several others suffering from depression. When Taji visits him to have some emotional support, Ezaki immediately tries to make him sink even deeper, and is amused by Taji's ability to notice his pessimistic wording. Moments before his demise, Ezaki calmly confesses to having no Freudian Excuse to justify his actions except for lacking a concept of life.
Considering Renri's identity as the real END is only revealed in the last chapter, excluding Tachibana's plot twist? I'll leave it up to you.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Dec 21st 2019 at 5:54:44 PM
Yeah, in terms of characters, the Overlook seems not to have one but Jack ends up becoming its avatar, much like Grady before him. I can see the ghosts of the people who worked or were killed there being used as avatars for the hotel itself, especially the Woman in Room 217, Lloyd, and Derwent. Even though these ghosts do act separate from the hotel.
Btw another one from csi I thought off. Jenny carroll from season 14, episode 16 killer moves.
Who is Jenny carrroll ?
The daughter of a chess champion. Jenny's attempts to learn the game we're shut down by dear old sexist dad. She in turn became obsessed with a legendary chess match between Karl Schrute and Troy Parker which ended in disaster for one recipient. She belived she could do better so became a Serial Killer who murdered people and placed their bodies on avenues that corresponded to street intersections that reflect what was the moves used by Parker who lost and screwed up.
She secluded a dude named lee crosby who was an obsessive fan of troy and conevinced him go help her with the murders. Their MO is to drug and then beat or stab to death their victims before placing their bodies in said intersections. Anyway they rack up a bodycount of six Prior victims beof re killing an elvis impersonated in vegas which makes seven and and an eight victim
The csi crew investigate but believe crosby and Parker are the actual participants unroll they discover that parker has mental and body dementia making him incapable of physically committing these murders or planning them our.
Anyway deciding to cut out lose ends, she drugs and murders crosby and kidnaps parker and schrute to force them to reinacte the game while planning to kill them afterwards to prove pettily that she was superior to them to get back at her father for not letting her play chess....
Anyway Csi Sanders is able to figure it out and save Parker and schrout with Jenny arrested.
Well kinda. She started this murder spree to get back at her father for the chess thing but this is such an over the top response. These people she killed were totally innocent , had nothing to do with that.. It's not played for sympathety. She's ice cold and pettty sociopath at the end of the day
Redeeming qualities ?
Nah. Cosby was manipulated into th is by her whose idea this was.
Heinous standard ?
For this franchise reaching double digits is pretty rare as noted before by me even arc villains and big bads often don't do that. Jenny though has 9 successful , plus 2 attempted with most of her murder being brutal beatings and stabbings. One of the nastiest villains of the week in the show. Plus add in an extreme Evil Is Petty motivation
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Sure to her.
BTW, I think we've been using Evil Is Petty wrong, when what we want is Disproportionate Retribution.
Jenny. You guys remember the original Clive Barker's Hellraiser comics? Got one more candidate, this time from Issue #13 aka The Ferryman.
Who is he? Harmon Taylor, the Greater-Scope Villain of the story, was a southern politician back in the 30s who bought a ship called "The Spirit of the South" and renamed it "Dixie Shadow" to better suit its "intended purposes" as a "floating house of horrors"; you see, Taylor was a high-ranking member of the infamous Ku Klux Klan, he was not only a white supremacist, but a complete sadist who led so-called "midnight raids" across the countryside to kidnap African Americans, including children, and take them to the Dixie Shadow to serve as "entertainment" for his fellow Klansmen, the men were tortured in a way to reenact slavery and forced to participate in Gladiator Games, the women were raped and thrown overboard directly into deep water, abandoned to drown. Taylor always saved his favorite gladiator for last, the Dixie Shadow's champion, the Ferryman, a sadomasochistic Blood Knight that could crush a man's skull with his bare hands, unleashing him on his victims. When not enjoying himself with the illegal fighting games, Taylor took some of his victims to a deserted island and set them free with the sole intention of Hunting the Most Dangerous Game alongside the other Klansmen; it was on such an outing that he finally discovered the Lament Configuration, solving it inside the Dixie Shadow, leading to the disappearance of Taylor and everyone aboard the depraved ship, except for one "deranged black child" who was eventually committed to a sanitarium, she was left behind to spread stories about the "demons" and how "Taylor is where he belongs, the dark box imprisons his evil".
Taylor's actions became the stuff of local legends and folklore, the hellish Dixie Shadow itself is said to be still active somehow, wandering the waters and causing numerous mysterious disappearances. Years later, now in 1992, another politician and Klansman under investigation of the FBI, Georgia Senatorial Candidate Sam Boyd, becomes obsessed with obtaining Taylor's legendary "hidden treasure" for himself because he can't "fight the Feds without some real bucks", he interrogated Taylor's distant descendant John Mattfield and then visited the girl from before, now an old woman, strangling the lady to make her reveal the location of the treasure, which is in the Dixie Shadow; inside the ship, Sam shot his lawyer when he sensed something "evil" and tried to flee. It doesn't take long for Sam to come across the Ferryman and his crew, now converted into Cenobites, they have been continuing Taylor's bloody legacy in their own way by capturing those "lost in the chaos of greed" in search of the treasure, but that part of the legend is nothing but a lie, and Taylor himself? He's still suffering as a victim in his own arena, the Cenobites took him but the old woman was spared to be a new guardian of the Lament Configuration, and Sam is their newest guest. A karmic Fate Worse than Death for both him and Taylor.
Mitigating Factors? None, he's a Klansman afterall. His appearance is certainly brief, but we do get see enough evidence of his secret hobbies through flashbacks.
Heinous? Again, dude's a Klansman, we have hedonists and psychos like Uncle Frank and the Stalker running around causing pain to other humans, but a Klansman? That's not something you normally see in Hellraiser. The Ferryman and the other ship Cenobites are cruel for sure, but Taylor is not only a definitive example of Humans Are the Real Monsters, he was also the one responsible for Dixie Shadow in the first place.
Conclusion?
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Dec 21st 2019 at 9:06:16 AM
Sam is honestly a pathetic Villain Protagonist, doesn't do much. Ferryman? I don't think so, he was Taylor's tool in the past, and even as a Cenobite he's not exactly torturing innocent people, torture in general is also standard behavior for Cenobites.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Dec 21st 2019 at 8:36:05 AM
to Ezaki, Brad, Jenny, and Harmon
Edited by G-Editor on Dec 21st 2019 at 1:13:26 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff

Edited by therealjackieboy on Dec 21st 2019 at 11:09:06 AM
It's Spooky Month!