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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#194978: Dec 14th 2019 at 12:53:19 PM

[tup]Zola, Buer, Beroul, & Dzym

Ansongc 2000, that argument really dosen't hold much water. The force is said to be neutral, a balancing force, the sith chose to follow the force and become evil

Edited by nwotyzal on Dec 14th 2019 at 1:02:09 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#194979: Dec 14th 2019 at 1:02:52 PM

Everyone keeps saying "I thought we were done with Legends!" every time we get a new candidate from it. At this point, I think it's about as surprising as harem light novels having disproportionately vile villains.

Anyways, canon or not, D'zym clears with the Omnicidal Maniac stuff. Yes to him.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#194980: Dec 14th 2019 at 1:05:45 PM

Honestly legends ran for so long. Well probably be getting candidates from there from Years to come.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#194981: Dec 14th 2019 at 1:07:23 PM

So, for Hellblazer, anyone object to me cutting Joshua Wright now? It's gonna be some time until the page is created, but I don't want someone asking why he's at the DC page and not at the work page.

Also, unless there's a good reason not to, I think I'll just have the Hellblazer page at DC for works with their own pages.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#194982: Dec 14th 2019 at 1:08:34 PM

Did lighty or scraggs file his cut here first?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#194983: Dec 14th 2019 at 1:12:15 PM

Yes, cut Wright. He's overshadowed with a smaller count.

As Scraggle and I have discovered, HB is full of sexual sadists and deviants. Wright is well overshadowed, as sickening as he is. As for Star Wars? No, we're not cutting Darksiders for that, absolutely not. We have multiple Sith or darksiders who can be much less evil people

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#194984: Dec 14th 2019 at 1:16:40 PM

Well it's a shame but I guess he's a cut.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman "Cool. Coolcoolcool." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#194986: Dec 14th 2019 at 1:26:09 PM

Well I guess cut him if he dosen't too much unique

Edited by nwotyzal on Dec 14th 2019 at 1:28:09 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#194987: Dec 14th 2019 at 1:38:23 PM

Let me get some writeups out of the way, too. The following weeks promise more Hellblazer, some Hellboy, a Wonder Woman candidate, and hopefully some candidates from an overlooked 90s superhero TV show I've been looking forward to for a while.

  • Aquaman: Minister Hagen, "the Heinous", is the leader of a caste of sorcerous Atlanteans who came to power during the rule of Gamemnae who weasels his way into control of all Atlantis. Hagen exiles Aquaman to die upon the Traitor's Reef, drugging his wife Empress Mera into catatonia to use her as a figurehead ruler and purging any part of the populace that didn't agree to his xenophobic rule, even ordering Dolphin and her infant son murdered solely due to their connection to Aquaman. Hagen dabbles in dark sorcery to mutate sealife into twisted abominations—even fusing some of them with falsely-accused convicts—planning to use an army of them to spill up from the ocean and eradicate all surface life.

  • Titans: Trigon, the evil, world-destroying demon that the Organization worships, is actually the father of Rachel Roth and the source of her dark powers. Trigon seeks to use his own daughter as a gateway to cross back into the world, using his cult of personality the Organization to butcher and torture swathes of people and having her mother Angela Azarath manipulate her into his clutches. Once he crosses through, Trigon proceeds to Mind Rape almost all of Angela's friends into his broken slaves, having them beat Gar into a bloody pulp to shatter Rachel's heart before literally tearing Rachel's heart out of her chest. Trigon even breaks Angela's neck to "housekeep" before he prepares to set out to swallow the Earth in darkness, devastating it of life and continuing on to destroy all life in the universe.

  • The Spectre: Field Marshall Offel is a terrorist playing the part of a psychotic General Ripper initiating "Operation Green Cloud." Offel has a car show gassed to the last man, woman and child, murdering fifty to sixty people and gleefully threatening more attacks of similar caliber should he not be paid ten-billion dollars, which Offel means to fund his bloody "World Revolution."

  • The Horror from the Mound: Don Santiago de Valdez, one of the first modern American vampires, is a cunning, sadistic monster who has fed on human blood since the time of the Moors. Driven out from his natural habitat three centuries in the past, Don Santiago assumed the part of a nobleman stranded on a ship that had been mysteriously scourged of all its passengers and crew. Joining the crew one Captain de Estrada. Don Santiago ravenously fed off the Captain's men on their expeditions, even murdering a priest who used his last breath to condemn Don Santiago to be buried under the Indian mound of the story's title. Rising again from the grave to murder the Mexican neighbor of the protagonist, the first and only time Don Santiago fully appears in the flesh reveals him as what he is: a fiend in barely-human form.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#194988: Dec 14th 2019 at 1:40:25 PM

Woah a 90's superhero show which we didn't go through yet. Huh .

Edited by miraculous on Dec 14th 2019 at 1:40:44 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#194989: Dec 14th 2019 at 1:51:42 PM

Lighty what made you change your mind about Beroul?

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#194991: Dec 14th 2019 at 1:56:37 PM

Initially, I dismissed Beroul due to a faultier memory...I'd even forgotten we talked about him. Rereading Hellblazer and All his Engines made me realize he was much worse than I remembered and 'hell on earth' wasn't just a generic HB baddie thing seeing the other villains and resources.

  • Star Wars Legacy: Sith Pilot Darth Rauder is assigned to lead the Skull Squadron and proceeds to spend her entire screentime committing every war crime she can. Ordering pilot Gunner Yage to shoot down ejecting pilots, Rauder threatens to explode Gunn's brain if she won't take the shot, gleefully torturing her to to force her to do so. When pursuing the refugees of Dac, Rauder orders her squads to massacre defenseless civilians, stating that no defense will make them easier to kill. Upon the start of war with the Jedi, Rauder even tries to make her squad shoot down Jedi children, claiming it's best to kill Jedi when they are young and defenseless.
  • Little Deaths: Victoria and Richard Gull are a seemingly wholesome couple who pick up young, desperate women in poverty and take them home. After drugging them, the two proceed to rape, sexually torture and abuse them physically and mentally to enjoy themselves, which befalls the young woman named Sorrow. Victoria has Richard assault Sorrow before attempting to do so herself, unaware Sorrow is far more than she lets on.
  • Swamp Thing: The Bogeyman is a serial killer with a bodycount that numbers over 160. With a penchant for memorizing the eyes of his victims at the moment of death, the Bogeyman stalks his victims and throttles them to death after toying with them. With his first victims from his youth, he continues to kill well into adulthood, luring a man into the swamps and murdering him while always remembering the eyes from which number victim they were.
  • Rachel Rising: Malus, the demon and fallen angel who evil itself was named for, has haunted humanity for centuries, driving them to evil and murder. Possessing the young girl Zoe, Malus has her murder those around her before Lilith comes to contact him and Malus decides to craft an antichrist to destroy humanity. Threatening to beget the antichrist by raping Zoe, Malus takes new bodies, frequently slaughtering those around him to corrupt Zoe into murder. Finally siring multiple children with other bodies and presiding over a series of nightmarish murders, Malus attempts to initiate armageddon and drown the world in blood.
  • Dark Shadows/Vampirella
    • Elizabeth Bathory, when human, killed countless girls to bathe in their blood. After rising as a vampire, Bathory slaughters numerous innocents as 'festivities' and when she meets Jack the Ripper, she kills his latest victim and makes him her pet. In modern day, bathory allows Jack to function a a serial killer while bringing her young women. Turning others into vampires, bathory kills her victims, attempting to force Vampirella and Barnabas Collins to kill one another before celebrating by trying to have her hostages torn apart for fun.
    • Jack the Ripper is a misogynist psychopath who slaughtered women in Whitechapel. Now serving Bathory, Jack brings her victims while operating as a serial killer through the ages. Garnering the name 'The Big Apple Butcher' for his latest, Jack targets multiple innocents and relishes in their suffering, even trying to murder Vampirella and her friends to satisfy his lust for murder.
  • Hellblazer: Buer is the demonic lord of lost children. Delighting in the unjust damnation of kids, Buer makes deals to set the children in hell under his own control so he can torture them and feed off their suffering. Introduced having a girl hurt him and burning her when she fails to please, Buer wants to restore the First of the Fallen to power. Taking a little boy hsotage to get John Constantine's attention, Buer informs John constantine that the children he has, including the little girl Astra that John had lost years ago at Newcastle, are suffering endlessly every day thanks to his refusal to yield to Buer. A sickening pervert and depraved monster, Buer stops at nothing to hurt children, enjoying it all the more for the pain done to undeserving innocents.

  • Carnage expansion: Upon dedicating himself to the god Knull, Carnage hunts those who have bonded to Symbiotes to consume their codexes, slaughtering civilians to empower himself. Corrupting and infecting others, Carnage attempts to free Knull from his prison, forcing Eddie brock to choose between saving his son or damning the world, to unleash Knull and have the symbiotes consume all life.

Edited by Lightysnake on Dec 14th 2019 at 1:57:37 AM

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#194992: Dec 14th 2019 at 1:59:21 PM

Just put that at the end of Carnage's current entry?

EDIT: Actually, that can replace the current last sentence.

Edited by ACW on Dec 14th 2019 at 5:00:36 AM

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#194993: Dec 14th 2019 at 2:12:49 PM

Btw lighty are you going to rewrite the first of the fallen. His current could do with a bit of a boost since it might be a bit too lacking for the guy who arguably the main villain of the entire series.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#194994: Dec 14th 2019 at 2:15:18 PM

After 25 last week, we're back to over 40, not counting Hellblazer.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#194995: Dec 14th 2019 at 2:16:11 PM

I'll have one more In Death example tommorrow hopefully before my write ups come afterwards.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#194996: Dec 14th 2019 at 2:18:56 PM

And then if he counts, I'll have one final In Death example by the end of the year.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
E1craZ4life Dr. Zeppo Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Dr. Zeppo
#194997: Dec 14th 2019 at 2:31:18 PM

It should be safe to introduce this candidate to the jury on this forum now. Granted, I've only seen the film once and have never seen its predecessor, but I expect that there are plenty of people who have seen both multiple times already; those of you in the aforementioned camp are in the best position to assess my recollection of the film from what I've seen.

What is the work?

Frozen II is the sequel to Frozen and follows the story of Elsa and her friends investigating a mysterious force that threatens to destroy Arandelle. The quest takes them to Northuldra, a village that became consumed in fog after a war broke out between the two kingdoms decades before. As people from both places attempt to make sense of what's been happening, it becomes evident that the royal family of Arendelle has many dark secrets hidden in its past.

Who is King Runeard?

King Runeard was the ruler of Arendelle when Elsa and Anna's parents were children. He set out on a campaign to make peace with the people of Northuldra, whose magic Runeard feared would threaten Arandelle if it was used against them. As part of the campaign, Runeard ordered the construction of a large dam, which was in actuality a plot to starve the Northuldrans of vital resources. When the leader found out the truth, Runeard led him to a secluded location in the forest and assassinated him. War quickly broke out between the two clans, and in the ensuing skirmish, Runeard fell off a cliff to his death.

Runeard's son, Prince Agnarr, was rescued before Northuldra became consumed by a dense fog set about by the enraged spirits of the forest, which trapped the entirety of the village and anyone still in the forest. Although the prince didn't know it, he would go on to marry his rescuer, Iduna, whose selfless act of rescue led the spirits of Northuldra to grand their first daughter with ice powers. This, in addition to the deaths of Agnarr and Iduna during a voyage to seek answers to Elsa's ice powers, ultimately set the stage for the first film and all of its events.

After defeating the villains of the first film, Elsa began hearing a voice calling out to her, and soon learned that elemental spirits were about to lay waste to Arandelle. The city is promptly evacuated, and Elsa and her friends are tasked with trying to quell the spirits before they destroy Arandelle. They eventually discover the truth about their grandfather and realize the dam must be destroyed in order to restore peace with the elemental spirits. The dam is destroyed, and while Arendelle was in the path of the ensuing flood, Elsa was able to save her kingdom before passing the crown to Anna and staying behind in Northuldra.

Heinousness?

Runeard initially presents himself as a noble ruler, and his son remembers him as a Reasonable Authority Figure who intended to keep his people safe from any potential threats. However, it's revealed that he was actually putting on a facade to hide his paranoia of anyone who was capable of wielding magic; a paranoia so powerful that he was willing to wipe out an entire civilization to ease his personal fears. His willingness to start a war to achieve power over the Northuldrans shows not only a disregard for the lives of those he fears, but the lives of his own people and his own family.

The chain of events that resulted from the war with Northuldra laid the groundwork for everything that happened in the first film, including a magically induced nuclear winter brought about by Runeard's teachings of magic wielders leading his son to lock up Elsa most of her life, and a prince from a rival kingdom who sought to exploit in as part of a campaign to usurp the throne. Despite said prince being an Opportunistic Bastard who was willing to abuse or even kill people to get what he wanted, he was acting out of family abuse suffered in childhood; Runeard had no justification for his paranoia of those who were versed in the ways of magic.

Mitigating factors?

While he died without being able to see the full effects of his carnage, namely the consumption of Northuldra by the impenetrable fog, his granddaughter being born with ice powers, and the prince of a rival kingdom plotting to usurp the throne in the wake of said granddaughter freezing the kingdom over, he was acutely aware of the fact that the magic of Northuldra had the potential to be catastrophic if provoked. Whether or not he knew or cared what would ensue from the war with Northuldra beyond the dam's intended effects remains unknown. What is known is that he possessed no Freudian Excuse at all for his actions.

Verdict?

He would probably be the most evil villain in the entire Disney Animated Canon if he was approved.

The answer to life and everything is in this place As are the numbers most favored by Two-Face
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#194998: Dec 14th 2019 at 2:32:25 PM

He was already discussed and deemed a non-keeper.

Why so serious?
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#194999: Dec 14th 2019 at 2:32:58 PM

Do they ever mention death in This war thing ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
E1craZ4life Dr. Zeppo Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Dr. Zeppo
#195000: Dec 14th 2019 at 2:33:02 PM

Really? When?

The answer to life and everything is in this place As are the numbers most favored by Two-Face

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