During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Carrot Clone
Here's my writeup for the week.
- Rapid Assault (1997):
- Lars Rynark is a former KGB soldier who defected from his government after a hit was placed on him. Getting revenge on his superiors, Rynark decided to become a terrorist and unleash a deadly virus across the world, threatening the US government with the virus unless he receives $50 million. Having a mole scientist tortured to death, once Rynark grows weary of using animals as test subjects, he threatens the kidnapped Dr. Strichman with using his daughter as a test for the virus’ capabilities should an innocent scientist not be used instead. Growing bored of the US government not handing him his money, Rynark decides to launch a missile at New York, and later abandons his men to make a getaway.
- Marko and Talia are Rynark’s Co-Dragons who gleefully participate in his plan to unleash the virus and kill billions, torturing a mole scientist to death and killing Dr. Strichman with a smile on their faces. Only in It for the Money, both Marko and Talia propose unleashing the virus on two nations and selling it as a bioweapon for profit, showing themselves as nothing but greedy sadists only out for themselves.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Speaking of Lain, I was actually thinking of EP-ing the Big Bad Masami Eiri myself, but based on what you said, I would be wasting my time.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Stryker and The Scarlet King
Also Keep All the Rest
Gentle Laborer
I explained this before. Masami doesn't count, period.
Stryker, loved playing that game when I was little.
Yeah to Stryker, Scarlet King and Marquette. Keep All The Rest.
If Elfien Lied Fan is gone, I wonder if anyone would to take some of the Western animation and live action suggestions I gave him. The problem with them is they are not short New Adventures of He-Man (65 episodes), Di-Gata Defenders (52 episodes) and Captain Power (23 episodes) are all pretty long.
New Adventures Skeletor was pretty nasty, but had a girlfriend, so that may or may not prevent him from counting, depending on how much he cared about her, there is pretty nasty one shot villain in the middle of the series, but his defeat was kinda silly.
Di-Gata is dark for a kids show and Captain Power has another evil AI villain as the Big Bad.
There is also some other Marvel and DC novels.
I thinking of taking a step back from this thread, it goes so fast now it's hard to keep up and I have been on it for a while and proposed a lot of the characters I was interested in. But I can help others find interesting stuff to propose.
I heard Ultimate Demon Beast 65 is looking for some characters to propose.
Edited by Overlord on Dec 7th 2019 at 12:43:15 PM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
By the way, why exactly does Masami Eiri not count? Is it because the show is such a Mind Screw that the full extent of his actions is ambiguous at best (similarly to why Gendo Ikari did not make the cut for Magnificent Bastard)? Or does he somehow fail the heinousness standard?
Edited by MasterN on Dec 7th 2019 at 12:52:00 PM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Because he's too insane
Goku Black
Shit now I'm curious how crazy is he ?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I'm checking out New Adventures of He-Man cartoon.
Did we ever settle Torres, btw? I'm a yes, still upon researching it.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
That's good.
Is anyone interested in these other series?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di-Gata_Defenders
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Power_and_the_Soldiers_of_the_Future
I can also point people towards some DC and Marvel novels if they so desire.
I have another CYOA book from the library, but I may slow down after that.
I might save my E Ps for something big, like the Picard series, which I will be watching regardless. Does anyone want to cover Picard instead?
I think a vacation from this thread is warranted for the time being, I can always come back later.
But anyone can PM me if they want some ideas for characters to present.
Edited by Overlord on Dec 7th 2019 at 1:37:21 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
I am pretty sure we ultimately decided that Torres invalidated his Well-Intentioned Extremist claims and upvoted him.
Also, as for what @Miraculous asked, it has been a while since I watched Lain, and the Mind Screw nature of the series makes it a little hard to tell, but I do not remember Masami being insane in a way that clearly impaired his agency. It seemed to me that he knew full well what he was doing when trying to merge the consciousness of humanity with The Wired and himself. Not necessarily trying to get him up, just want to be clear on why he does not qualify.
Edited by MasterN on Dec 7th 2019 at 1:36:49 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
This might've gotten lost in the discussion about All the Rest, but Lighty, you're taking care of Carnage's and Knull's expansions at some point, right (does Knull even return, or does Carnage just use his name?)?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Knull's prison is just broken up. I don't think he's done anything new as off yet though.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
@Overlord: I might look at Di-Gata and Captain Power.
Yeah, Knull was the greater scope baddie of Absolute Carnage and given how it ended, it'd be premature to talk about him yet. I'll expand Carnage soon, don't worry.
Goku Black
So how long do you think Carnage will stay dead for? A year maybe two ?
Like let's be honest here. Iconic marvel and dc heroes and villains don't die for real.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
RIP Toriyama
'Yes' to Stryker and Scarlet King.
Yeah, Knull doesn't need any sort of expansion as of now. I absolutely loathe what they did to Carnage in this arc and how he was reduced to nothing but a run-of-the-mill Apocalypse Maiden (unlike his 2016 comic that went a similar route and actually stayed true to the character) and Psycho Supporter, but he definitely needs more added to his write-up.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
@ falcontalons, great, if you want I can PM you with more info.
Edited by Overlord on Dec 7th 2019 at 2:10:03 AM
Eiri genuinely thinks living in the wired would be good for humanity and after the world’s reset seems to adapt to it becoming a perfectly normal person, similarly Kira and LeBlanc don’t count in their respective works for similar behaviour in a different world. Unless someone is going to try an EP I don’t want to have a huge conversation about it- to me he’s a clear non keeper.
Also I’ve retracted my opinion on Gendo not counting but that’s a conversation for another thread and year.
Edited by 43110 on Dec 7th 2019 at 5:09:59 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Who "killed" Carnage anyway?
But yeah, I was talking with Mir, and I don't think ANY of the iconic Marvel or DC CM's have stayed dead, at least in main continuities. Joker, Darkseid, Brainiac, Vandal Savage for DC; Red Skull, Ultron, Norman, Bullseye, Dormammu, Mephisto, Apocalypse, Omega Red, Sabretooth, Sinister for Marvel (Malekith may be dead though).
Wow, looking at that, unless I missed some (possible), there are a LOT more iconic ones for Marvel than DC. Maybe that's because some of DC's iconic villains usually aren't CM's (Luthor, Batman's except Joker, etc).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Is Malkekith dead? Last I heard he just had his legs eaten off by dogs'
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ah okay.
Yeah being A PG rated work can turn what could be a super heinous plan into an oddly generic and safe one. It's how both Ghetsis and sorcha reed both have a freeze a city plan but Sorcha only counts since her work goes into the actual death that would result.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."