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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
AlmightyKingPrawn I can chase the wind, I can race the rain from Down at Fraggle Rock *clap clap* Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
I can chase the wind, I can race the rain
#194178: Dec 6th 2019 at 3:19:34 PM

I thought about Runeard, but he relies too much on Offscreen Villainy and Fridge Horror imo.

Edited by AlmightyKingPrawn on Dec 6th 2019 at 6:19:50 AM

She/her. Profile pic is by Richard Michael Gomez @StarmansArt. Please watch Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock. https://youtu.be/Vm92JNgPbqk
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#194179: Dec 6th 2019 at 3:46:59 PM

[tdown]All the Rest (I'm always a little iffy when it comes to troper works being EP'd)

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#194180: Dec 6th 2019 at 3:53:18 PM

As someone who's EP'd a troper work, that's not fair.

Lighty, you said you're expanding Carnage (and Knull?)?

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#194182: Dec 6th 2019 at 4:09:13 PM

Being a troper work in not inherently a reason to question a work, that’s not a road we’re going down.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#194183: Dec 6th 2019 at 4:29:36 PM

A new rule in regard to troper works should be made then? Where works made as a result of jokes like ATR would be prohibited?

Probably not, but just a thought.

Edited by AustinDR on Dec 6th 2019 at 4:34:49 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#194184: Dec 6th 2019 at 4:33:00 PM

We don't need a rule for everything. Can discretion just be shown?

It was working really, really well for awhile that people would just exercise that with works.

Edited by Lightysnake on Dec 6th 2019 at 4:33:18 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#194185: Dec 6th 2019 at 4:33:49 PM

[up] yeah, we shouldn't need a hard and fast rule for this

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#194186: Dec 6th 2019 at 4:37:14 PM

I agree that Runard doesn't count, we see very little of his actions in the film

I personally say keep All the Rest, it might just be me but I felt that there was enough substance to the story for him to count.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#194187: Dec 6th 2019 at 4:40:49 PM

TBH? So do I.

I don't quite think it verges to pointless grimdark. It's a dark horror story and devotes just enough to the setting and narrator that it's not just a bad, one note creepypasta or darkfic style

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#194188: Dec 6th 2019 at 4:47:31 PM

Okay, I'm seeing different opinions on this from folks whose judgement I trust, abd this seems like a case where reading the work would be helpful, bur I don't feel like it, so I'm abstaining on All the Rest.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#194189: Dec 6th 2019 at 4:48:15 PM

I adamantly disagree on keeping but I’ll concur we’re getting ridiculous with the constant need for rules to keep our heads straight. Just exercise common sense.

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#194190: Dec 6th 2019 at 4:51:04 PM

Agreed. No need to make a rule about the sitch. Let's just vote on All The Rest and leave it be.

I'm personally sticking with my [tdown]

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#194191: Dec 6th 2019 at 4:53:10 PM

Cut All the Rest

Sorry but I have to agree with 43 here.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#194192: Dec 6th 2019 at 4:55:21 PM

Come on guys not everything needs to be weirdly solidified into those rules in order for you to know that something is a bad idea and to not do it.

Anyway still keeping my no to All the rest.

Edited by miraculous on Dec 6th 2019 at 4:57:37 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#194193: Dec 6th 2019 at 4:56:31 PM

Hack All The Rest and keep in mind discretion. It comes back to one of the very same recurring issues—writing a story with the specific goal of getting a CM up distracts from the actual cleanup effort and implies a badge of honor mentality we have persistently been attempting to snuff out. Let's not encourage it, please.

randomtroper89 from The Fire Nation Since: Nov, 2010
#194194: Dec 6th 2019 at 5:02:41 PM

[tdown]For All the Rest.

Nyarlathotep, Naberius, and both Azazels proced to escort All the Rest out of the Troper CM Club.

Edited by randomtroper89 on Dec 6th 2019 at 11:46:33 AM

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#194195: Dec 6th 2019 at 5:24:22 PM

After much thought, Elfen has decided to leave the website as a whole for good. He'll be available on his Discord server (or his Wikia account) if anyone wants to contact him.

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#194196: Dec 6th 2019 at 5:26:42 PM

Having personally read the story before voting on him, and knowing my previous effortposts of more or less controversial candidates such as J and Ruby Rose for similar reasons, I'll go against the majority and say keep to All the Rest. However, barring that, I agree with Scraggle and Lightysnake's messages on the rules and "badge of honor" stuff.

That being said, speaking of J, so far he doesn't counts in the Cinquante Nuances de Rouge rewrite. His Freudian Excuse is thoroughly more developed, each flashback shows that his parents are legit abusive, and he has a redeeming quality in the form of the postman : when he was a kid and already sent out by his parents to sort out the garbage, he'd often meet the postman, who was the only positive adult figure of his life, and was probably much more of a parent than his biological parents could ever be. You know something's off when the guy's happiest memory is to sort out the garbage and meeting a postman.

Perhaps his actions can end up outweighing his Freudian Excuse in the future (and so far the guy is definitely heinous enough), but for now, no. That being said, the story also deals with J's worldview not only during his acts, but in his everyday life and his experiences, and for that, I think it's a much more interesting read than the original, even though there isn't as much as hilarious Crosses the Line Twice and Black Comedy moments. I'd recommend it... If you can understand French.

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Dec 6th 2019 at 2:41:04 PM

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#194197: Dec 6th 2019 at 5:38:03 PM

Honestly, after thinking about it some more, I'll side with Papyru, Lighty, and Georgie and switch to keeping All the Rest; I think the effort put into the story's atmosphere and setting saves it from being pointless schlock or being too barebones. However, I also agree that we don't need to have a rule on these types of characters.

Edited by falcontalons on Dec 6th 2019 at 5:38:52 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#194198: Dec 6th 2019 at 5:44:15 PM

Having now read the story itself? I'm with Lighty and Papyru, Keep all the rest. The story is not the "Evil dude does evil stuff" or the pointless grimdark that stories like that the rule is for.

And sense the story itself is good, I'm personaly glad this situation happened.

Edited by Kylotrope on Dec 6th 2019 at 5:46:21 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#194199: Dec 6th 2019 at 5:50:20 PM

5k words of the horror the monster had turned society into, a psychological trip at the fear of its ritual and a Downer Ending. What am I missing here?

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#194200: Dec 6th 2019 at 5:51:41 PM

Switching to abstain on All the Rest. This feels like one where I would have to read it myself and I just don't have the time to right now.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

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