During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
We already have an example in Spawn.
Demon King (how many have that title again?)
Also, the link to The Tooth Fairy at Other Media (under theme parks) dosen't go to the page anymore (the house was retired 2 years ago). Could we do something about that?
Demon King
Two years ago on this day, I became a recurring EPer on the thread thanks to my Tarantula Claw EP, having originally been a lurker. Since then, I have covered over a hundred villains from multiple genres and media on this forum, and have met and collaborated with some truly awesome, inspiring people.
So let’s celebrate my 2nd Year Anniversary by covering something that’s complete, utter garbage.
What Is the Work?
Samurai Gun is a 2004 action anime adapted from the manga of the same name. And if you couldn’t tell already, this show sucks. Lousy animation, uninteresting characters, crappy voice acting with awful swear-happy dialogue, rampant, disgusting misogyny involving the recurring deaths of big breasted, unnamed women (I don't often throw the misogyny card around willy-nilly, so that should tell you something), and a boring, dull plot that wastes a kind of interesting premise. And wouldn't you know it, ADV Films helped produce this show. Between this and Sin: The Movie it's no wonder they went bankrupt.
So that plot. Well, I’m lazy, and I’ll just have a Youtube description describe the plot for me.
“It is the beginning of the industrial revolution, and feudal Japan is in turmoil. The ruling Shogun are wielding their abusive powers to instill fear and dominance over their oppressed subjects. Beatings, imprisonment, rape and even murder are the adopted tactics chosen to maintain their reign. The bloodshed must end. A group of Samurai have banded together, and, with the development of new weapons and new technology, they have both the will and the hardware to stand up and fight. Ichimatsu is one of these fighters. By day, he works incognito at a local tavern, in the evenings he frequents the brothels, and by the dark of night, he doles out some big-time, gun-barrel justice. He is here to help. He is Samurai Gun.”
So yeah, there are some bad people on the show. Unfortunately, they're all basic villains who aren't as heinous as they could have been. However, I think this fine duo here might be of interest.
Who Are They?
Chuusuu and Gishuu, from “The Man with the Gun”, are two brothers, and the sons of Raishu Ijikawa—chief of the Shogun’s preservation bureau—who are nothing but a couple of giggling sadists who enjoy killing women alongside their slightly kinder brother, Chishuu, who looks like Axl Rose for some reason. The three (though this EP primarily focuses on Chuusuu and Gishuu) are described as “Animals with no respect for human life.”
What have they done?
Using their father’s power to get whatever they want by exploiting the people and making themselves rich, the duo, plus Chishuu, routinely kidnap women/anyone who resists and hunt them down in the woods with their crossbows, often taunting them during the hunt or after they kill them. Four women are killed rather brutally, and more are shown to be chained and locked up in their basement prison, the brothers getting enjoyment from their quivering and crying.
Children are also not safe, as at one point, the two try and kill a mother and her child, and another child is shown to be imprisoned with her mother. So who knows how long this has been going on, and how many children have died from the brothers’ sick, twisted games. Later on, Ichimatsu shoots Gishuu in chest a couple of times, his shitty CGI blood getting on some leaves, then shoots Chuusuu as well, killing them both for good.
Redeeming Qualities?
None. Chuusuu and Gishuu might’ve loved each other, but they die before they get to show any of that. Chishuu, the other brother, doesn’t count, as he truly cares for his siblings, and even tries to kill Ichimatsu because he killed them (he screams “This is for my brothers!” while trying to kill Ishimatsu; granted, he threatens to kill a child, but his brothers were trying to kill the kid as well before their deaths). I compare these two to the two unnamed Exalted Ones for a reason. Chuusuu doesn’t react at all to Gishuu’s death, instead questioning who Samurai Gun really is and trying to kill him.
Heinousness?
So this world is dark. Murder, torture, this story has it all. Even one of the Samurai Guns who went rogue and killed dozens upon dozens of people is shown to resist harming women and children, and has more resources out of anybody in the story. Not these two. Chuusuu and Gishuu love to murder, and enjoy hunting anyone of all ages, children included. While the organization who trains kids to become Samurai Guns have killed some kids, the organization is treated as an unseen group with no one to really blame; granted, from what little we’re shown, the organization doesn’t seem to be sadistic about it, just very brutal in their teachings, unlike Chuusuu and Gishuu, who see the killings as a twisted game. Most other villains just torture one person, murder like five people, or standard, basic villainy.
Besides, hunting people for sport is pretty unique for the series.
Conclusion
I think these two are a keep.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Nov 26th 2019 at 8:59:09 AM
It's Spooky Month!
Hunters
is anyone going to answer my previous question?
"The link to The Tooth Fairy at Other Media (under theme parks) dosen't go to the page anymore (the house was retired 2 years ago). Could we do something about that?"
I was thinking maybe about linking it to This video
similar to the Joker in the Escape from Arkham
Edited by nwotyzal on Nov 26th 2019 at 9:42:10 AM
Sin the Movie was an anime adaptation/OVA of SiN. Basically, the plot was bad, a canon character was killed off early to be replaced by his sister who serves as gross fan service, and Elexis Sinclaire was given a redeeming quality for no real reason.
She loved her father. Despite the fact that she turned him into a giant mutant. She didn’t have this quality in the game.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Nov 26th 2019 at 11:04:36 AM
It's Spooky Month!
Hunters
Read a good vampire book. So here's an ep to celebrate.
Whats the work?
Carpathia by Matt Forboek is a vampire novel inspired by Dracula.
When the lucky survivors of the world’s most infamous maritime disaster were plucked out of the freezing ocean by the passenger steamship Carpathia, they thought their problems were over.
But something is sleeping in the darkest recesses of their rescue ship. Something old. Something hungry.
W Ho is Brody Murtagah
A monstrous vampire who even their leader Dushoko (The Dracula equivalent of the novel) despises for his needless sadism and lack of care for keeping them hidden. He was an Irish gangster and murderer who was sired by the vampire Elizabetha (Heavily implied to be Elizabeth Bathory herself). Anyway Dushoko feels that his people (vampires) are in danger in the new world of being found out so has planned a voyage on the Carpahatia to head back to the old world. Anyway the Titanic sinks and Muratgh takes thisthis opportunity to gorge himself on dozens of the passengers who are struggling for their lives. The Carpathia brings in hundreds of survivors and he sneaks on boards.
Murtagh has had enough. Hes sick of Dushokos pragamitsim and wants to forge an empire for himself. Hes going to gorge himself as well as his followers on the hundreds of passagers then their going to make their way to New York City and turn the city into a Banquet. As he doesn't like the idea of not being on top. This would allow him to start with a vampire world takeover.
Anyway after Abe, Quinn Harker and Lucy Steward make it on board the Carpathia where they seemingly kill Elizabetha. This enrages Dushoko who swears revenge for the death of his beloved. Anyway he blames Murtagh for being careless and the two duel only for Murtgah to kill him. Anyway turns out Elizabetha is alive as she'd been able to revive Herself and confronts them taking over Abes mind. Murtagh though views her as a lose end of sorts so remorselessly rips of her limbs including her head and throws her in the water aplenty she'll be conscious for a bit before she dies as well. Anyway he goes after Lucy and Abe drinks from Elizbtha's blood in order to turn himself into a vampire in order to beat Murtagh. Anyway Quinn and Abe have the ship second our life boats saving everyone as the vampires die Dr to skid saddle out of their. Murtagh is Pissed though that his empire is gone and is about to kill them only for lucy to stab him with a crucifex, which causes him to burn away to dust.
He was an evil monster even before becoming a vampire.
Other redeeming qualities?
He is quite the charmer but that's fake.
He is a sadist who avoid the pragmatic approach of his former master and wants an empire for himself.
He was okay with Elizabetha for awhile but when she Became a lose end he got rid of her with no effort or remorse whatsoever.
And yes I know you guys are going to ask. Vampires do have agency. Abe still cares about Quinn and Lucy after being turned and is still a good guy while Dushoko cares for his own kind.
Heinoius standard?
Easily worst in the novel . Dushoko is pragmatic and tries to avoid bloodshed. Murtagh though kills dozens of people, plans to turn a ship of hundreds of men, women and children into his personal larder. The is going to do the same to New York City before waging war on humanity.
Conclusion?
Easy keep. Great read too.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
