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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#192777: Nov 24th 2019 at 3:22:08 PM

The batch.

Does Power Rangers dude want to destroy or just conquer?

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#192778: Nov 24th 2019 at 3:23:39 PM

[up] Conquer. But he wants to destroy the barriers separating the multiverse.

Edited by Bullman on Nov 24th 2019 at 5:25:39 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#192779: Nov 24th 2019 at 3:26:50 PM

Would destroying just the barriers cause any deaths?

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#192780: Nov 24th 2019 at 3:28:12 PM

ACW: No but he makes it clear that anyone who doesn't submit will die. Look I didn't EP the guy, but if you want I could give my opinion in him.

Edited by Bullman on Nov 24th 2019 at 5:31:14 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#192781: Nov 24th 2019 at 3:31:15 PM

Hmm, if he's still heinous enough, maybe change the last sentence to "... subject it to his will, killing any who don't comply."?

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#192782: Nov 24th 2019 at 3:33:59 PM

Okay I fine with that. I think he just barely makes it through the skin of his teeth. Do to the fact that his goals are so fast and he only appears in one episode, but he gets so close. However I don't really care, and could see someone thinking different do to the high heinous standard.

Edited by Bullman on Nov 24th 2019 at 6:17:34 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Rmpdc Ghoulish Brain Worm from Philippines Since: May, 2015 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Ghoulish Brain Worm
#192783: Nov 24th 2019 at 3:59:24 PM

I counted at least 22 [tup]s for Gelorum. I guess that means she makes it in later, right? For the record, I was expecting at least a few downvotes since her other heinous acts that weren't torture and turning people into mindless drones were more characteristic of a regular Hate Sink. Glad to know that I wasn't the only one who thought this was f***ed up even back then...

[down] I left a draft in the CM Drafts page.

Edited by Rmpdc on Nov 25th 2019 at 12:26:33 AM

"We are gonna sit here and take it! You hear me!? We're gonna take it!"
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#192784: Nov 24th 2019 at 4:01:28 PM

Yeah (holy crap that's a lot). Please add to the Drafts once the writeup's done.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#192785: Nov 24th 2019 at 4:45:23 PM

You know now that I counted seven CM entries for 24 should we give the show it’s own CM page?

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#192786: Nov 24th 2019 at 5:08:55 PM

[up] No. So far all the CMs have been from the show only. The tree doesn't look messy or hard to follow. If I find anyone from the books, then maybe.

Nobody counts in the comics BTW.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
AgeOfTropeEmpire Handsome Head of Hyperion Since: Nov, 2018
Handsome Head of Hyperion
#192787: Nov 24th 2019 at 6:29:45 PM

How do we handle TV villains whose arcs are not done but they have enough to count, and the show is on a long season break? I only ask because it was announced not too long ago that Mindhunter's 3rd season won't be coming for several years due to David Fincher's schedule, and BTK/Dennis Rader easily counts right now, but his arc is still ongoing in the show and likely won't be resolved until the show's final season whenever that is.

Would Rader be able to be effortposted now given the fact that his arc won't be continuing for years until the next season, or would it be better just to wait until the show either wraps up his arc or gets cancelled to propose him?

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#192788: Nov 24th 2019 at 6:38:22 PM

[up] Personally I at least prefer to wait until a villain's arc is over, even if they aren't killed. But nothing's stopping you from doing an EP now.

If something mitigating/redeeming comes up in the future (which has been a Running Gag this year, it seems), we'll just cut him.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#192789: Nov 24th 2019 at 6:52:41 PM

I'd say go for it.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
IukaSylvie from Kyoto, Japan Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#192790: Nov 24th 2019 at 7:23:28 PM

[tup] Tsu.

I've brought up Grande from Tweeny Witches multiple times, but this time, I would like to correct his entry because what he does to the wizards is not just "ethnic cleansing" (ghettoization, technically speaking); he also seeks to destroy their dying culture ("The town changed. We didn't have a place to stay anymore. [...] our wizard traditions are about to come to an end from their attacks. [...] They're trying to wipe us out", Wil says in the subtitle of "The True Wizard"). I think it's an important detail because it's one of the many reasons why he stands out.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#192791: Nov 24th 2019 at 7:28:58 PM

Why do fixes need to keep coming up for this villain?

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#192792: Nov 24th 2019 at 7:33:45 PM

Yeah, there's no real need to make constant revisions if everything's factual.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#192793: Nov 24th 2019 at 7:45:50 PM

I'm really sick of coming back to this one...

Actually Luka, I'll go in good faith we didn't already ask you this but now I'm putting it in writing to request you just stop bringing up Grande unless there is an actual issue with the information given in the writeup. Further retreads without new info will be hollered as this is becoming tiresome.

Edited by 43110 on Nov 24th 2019 at 10:47:53 AM

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#192795: Nov 24th 2019 at 7:52:59 PM

If anything, Stoddard is now at 10[tup] and 5[tdown]. So i think he is approved.

Chang is at 10[tup] and 8[tdown], so he is not approved.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#192796: Nov 24th 2019 at 8:22:49 PM

About the other thing- personally, I say wait until a work is finished. I have two potential qualifiers that I want to EP, but because the games are not finished yet, I cannot make the full EP. Aside from possible mitigating qualities being introduced, any later deeds of the character could stretch the length of the writeup. So as much as I want to EP my candidates, I have decided to wait until the works are fully finished. But if you want to EP the character, that is fine.

Important Query Here: Anyways, I asked a question earlier about a character that was put up/left up, Black Battler from Umineko: When They Cry and Umineko: Golden Fantasia- specifically, how he has agency. I am fairly certain that he is the embodiment of the 'Battler Culprit' theory, the theory that Battler was behind the Rokkenjima massacre. Being that he is the embodiment of a theory, it seems to me like he lacks agency. In fact, I think Evatrice was cut for that same reason (and her eventual Heel–Face Turn). At least Bernkastel I can understand having agency, as she is simply another version of Rika Furude, but not quite a Superpowered Evil Side. Black Battler was, in a sense, born from the concept of an evil Battler. However, it seems that this question was ignored. Anyone here familiar enough with Umineko to tell me how Black Battler was approved, if he somehow possess agency?

And on a totally unrelated note, but a question I have. What is the cutest CM you can think of? And I do not mean 'cute guy', I mean cute in a Cute Is Evil way. For me, it would probably be Iris Sepperin from Rosenkreuzstilette, the one work I can think of where the Token Mini-Moe of all people is the CM.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#192797: Nov 24th 2019 at 9:06:07 PM

I know nothing about Umineko, but it seems like Black Battler does lack agency. [tdown] unpess there's a damn good argument.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#192798: Nov 24th 2019 at 9:11:42 PM

Can't comment much on BB as I am more familiar with Higurashi with some passing knowledge on Bernkastel.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#192799: Nov 24th 2019 at 9:26:35 PM

[tup]Solomon, Bashir, Chang, Tsu, the Shooter rewrite, and the Fallout image

BTW, shouldn't Nurse Ratched's writeup have her be referred as "Nurse Ratched" instead of "Ratched" at the beginning of the writeup? (also I saw when the writeup was made, shouldn't she have been here from the getgo?)

Edited by nwotyzal on Nov 24th 2019 at 9:27:03 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#192800: Nov 25th 2019 at 1:07:19 AM

"Nurse Ratched, the 'Big Nurse'" seems odd IMHO.


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