TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#19201: Nov 16th 2013 at 5:42:59 AM

Yes, they do. I've never heard that JFF pages are exempted from wiki policy, including Complete Monster policy.

edited 16th Nov '13 5:49:15 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
doineedaname from Eastern US Since: Nov, 2010
#19202: Nov 16th 2013 at 5:53:23 AM

[up][up] Only one of the characters listed on the Daring Do CM entry is an actual character from it, the rest are all made up for the page like most of the stuff on there.

edited 16th Nov '13 5:54:35 AM by doineedaname

randomtroper89 from The Fire Nation Since: Nov, 2010
#19203: Nov 16th 2013 at 6:04:39 AM

While we add Unalaq, we also should add this Ozai rewrite. As you can tell by my Avatar, I've always wanted to do this.

  • Fire Lord Ozai from Avatar: The Last Airbender is a genocidal, child-abusing fascist dictator who has dedicated weeks at a time and large portions of his national army to hunting down and killing a twelve-year-old and his friends. He obtained the throne when he manipulated his wife into murdering his father to usurp the throne from his grieving older brother Iroh and then thanked his wife with banishment from the Fire Nation. He physically abused his son Zuko, by burning his face for speaking out of turn, and tried to shot him with lightning when he decides to join Aang. His loyal daughter Azula fares little better, as he cruelly manipulated her into becoming his perfect little villain to the point where she completely wrecks her emotional and mental health from the pressure, only to discard her to a completely meaningless position. Finally, his reaction to news of rebellions in the Earth Kingdom is to try to incinerate the entire continent. He doesn't regret any of those moments and feels no remorse for the consequences.

edited 16th Nov '13 12:02:37 PM by randomtroper89

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#19204: Nov 16th 2013 at 6:07:41 AM

I've wondered if the spoiler tags can be moved around so that they show more of his heinous actions.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
despoa Since: Aug, 2012
#19206: Nov 16th 2013 at 8:14:34 AM

[up][up][up]

Here's a little fix.

His loyal daugher Azula fares little better, as he cruelly manipulated her into becoming his perfect little villain to the point where she completely wrecks her emotional and mental health from the pressure, only to discard her to a completely meaningless position. Finally, his reaction to news of rebellions in the Earth Kingdom is to try to incinerate the entire continent. He doesn't regret any of those moments and feels no remorse for the consequences.

edited 16th Nov '13 8:15:37 AM by despoa

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#19207: Nov 16th 2013 at 8:30:58 AM

As to Unalaq being a Complete Monster, can't disagree (much as I'd like to think the writers weren't hacks), but a No-Holds-Barred Beatdown on Tonraq doesn't really contribute. Tonraq attacked him. He was defending himself.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)

  • Complete Monster: The Shredder. He's not quite as monstrous as his 2003 series counterpart, but he's certainly plenty evil in his own right. His crimes include arson, murder, assault, threatening, mutilation, attempted environmental destruction, smuggling, unlawful treatment of prisoners (a Kraang), and kidnapping Hamato Yoshi's daughter solely to raise her to hate her biological father.

edited 16th Nov '13 8:34:12 AM by Eagal

ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#19208: Nov 16th 2013 at 8:33:55 AM

[up] Remove. The series isn't over yet. Shredder has ways to go.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#19209: Nov 16th 2013 at 9:40:13 AM

[up][up] I think it deserves a mention. Unalaq was attacking his home. I feel you lose the self defense privilege when you instigate the fight and then act like a sadistic prick after it's over

DrPsyche Avatar by Leafsnake from Hawaii Since: May, 2012
Avatar by Leafsnake
#19210: Nov 16th 2013 at 10:31:34 AM

Cut the Shredder, heʻs bad, but the series hasnʻt ended yet, nor has his arc, and I donʻt feel like he quite makes it yet.

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#19211: Nov 16th 2013 at 10:33:30 AM

[up][up] Got a point, I suppose. Though I will note that it wasn't a No-Holds-Barred Beatdown, just a Curb-Stomp Battle. But that's a sidenote more than anything, not really important overall.
[up] Done and done. I didn't expect he'd pass the mark, so I actually deleted him before bringing it here. ;P

edited 16th Nov '13 10:40:06 AM by Eagal

SuperSaiyaMan Since: Jun, 2009
#19212: Nov 16th 2013 at 11:06:56 AM

[up] ...why would the writers be hacks Eagal? Because Unalaq was as bad as everyone thought?

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#19213: Nov 16th 2013 at 11:18:28 AM

Because he started out ambiguous and made some good points even if he was kind of a jerk. But then it turns out he's evil and he starts punting puppies because he wants to free Vaatu and be the Dark Avatar and rule the world and blah blah blah.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#19214: Nov 16th 2013 at 11:21:26 AM

I disagree but this isn't the place for this debate. The important thing is we agree he hits CM status

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#19215: Nov 16th 2013 at 11:26:32 AM

Need a mod or somethin to add him in. Page is locked up tight. tongue

In other news.

Kung Fu Panda: Legends of Awesomeness

  • Complete Monster: Affably Evil aside, Tong Fo qualifies. He attempted to destroy the Valley of Peace for seemingly no reason, his actions are taken seriously, he shows no remorse for the devastation he brought or attempted to bring, and has no redeeming qualities that we know of.

edited 16th Nov '13 11:29:02 AM by Eagal

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#19216: Nov 16th 2013 at 11:28:51 AM

This thread deals with edit requests on locked pages.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Crowley Since: Jan, 2001
#19217: Nov 16th 2013 at 11:37:12 AM

A tangent, but related to clean up efforts: is there any easy way of figuring out if the text/definition of a trope article went through a massive rehaul (edit history is too short)? Some trope articles are so incredibly mangled to Continuity Lock-Out levels (e.g. Family-Unfriendly Aesop, which has a description that contradicts most of the examples and feels like it was bent over backwards to appease...something.) that I'm wondering what the hell happened here.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#19218: Nov 16th 2013 at 11:39:30 AM

Through the Wayback Machine?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Crowley Since: Jan, 2001
#19219: Nov 16th 2013 at 12:03:12 PM

[up]That wouldn't really give me the why though...I ask this because with in cohesive tropes sometimes I'm not sure if I should edit the text of an article to be clearer, or if the definition of a trope has actually been changed by general consensus and I should delete the examples that no longer fit.

Camberf Since: Jan, 2012
#19220: Nov 16th 2013 at 12:12:15 PM

@19227 Sounds like a possible contender, assuming that he's actually Faux Affably Evil.

edited 16th Nov '13 12:12:33 PM by Camberf

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#19221: Nov 16th 2013 at 12:38:54 PM

Rewatching Tong Fo's episodes now. In Father Crimes he lets Shirong off his debt after Shirong helps to capture Shifu, and in his first appearance he compliments Po's deception. Those are his only two Affably Evil moments though.

He doesn't seem to have any purpose beyond being evil. He never gives any reason for wanting to destroy the Valley, and he heavily implies that he's going to torture Shifu after the above-mentioned capture. He offers to help Po in Mind Over Manners, but almost immediately reveals that the "help" in question will kill Po.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#19222: Nov 16th 2013 at 1:08:53 PM

Lighty, I did all your stuff. Did you do this post? Also, about the JL movies...move to DCAU subpage?

edited 16th Nov '13 1:09:00 PM by ACW

Morgenthaler Since: Feb, 2016
#19223: Nov 16th 2013 at 1:12:15 PM

I added the rewrites for Stalin, Yuri, and Rippner to their YMMV pages after they were submitted to the edit request thread.

Re: Stargate: Aside from the keeps for Anubis and RepliCarter and cuts for Tanith, Dr. Keffler, and Simeon, I also suggest cut for President Nadal after rewatching the episode he appeared in, as he's a lot less heinous than I recalled. His actions are due to the Cold War-like paranoia of fearing to see his own people obliterated, the other side engages in almost the same actions, and destroying the Prometheus is the result of a quick escalation in hostilities. He's not heinous enough even for his limited appearance compared to the likes of RepliCarter and Anubis.

I rewrote Anubis' entry and kept RepliCarter as is, since I don't see any room for improvement.

  • Stargate SG-1:
    • Anubis, by far the most evil and dangerous of the Goa'uld System Lords. He was banished by the other Goa'uld for actions they considered unspeakable even by their evil standards. (Bear in mind that this is a race of megalomaniacal Puppeteer Parasites who think nothing of torturing their dethroned rivals to death, then bringing them back to life and doing it again. And again. And again.). He tricked Oma Desala, a wise higher-dimensional being, into helping him ascend so that he could become an immortal Energy Being, making sure to rub it into her face how she is unable to stop his evil acts. His subsequent plans after his return include repeatedly annihilating entire civilizations and replacing the Jaffa warriors with mindless super soldiers. After his stable form is destroyed he starts possessing random people to hold him until their bodies completely decay after a few days. His ultimate plan before he finally got taken out was to wipe out all life in the galaxy with an Ancient superweapon — all of it, mind you, including his own race and his entire army — so he could use the Ancient knowledge he retained to entirely recreate a galaxy's worth of races that would unquestionably worship him as a god.
    • Horrifically, Repli-Carter might count as the extremely rare cross between one of these and a Magnificent Bastard...she betrays both Fifth and Carter in very short order, manipulating Carter into feeling sympathetic because Carter believes Fifth was cruel to Repli-Carter. Turns out, she was merely using Carter's torture experience as grounds to manipulate her. Then, she killed Fifth, not out of vengeance or emotion, but to fuel her ambition to consume the galaxy. When real Carter showed signs of sympathy, Repli-Carter coldly and calmly, with a strangely static and uncaring version of the mannerism's real Carter would use when comforting someone, told her that Fifth wasn't worth any empathy because he was weak. She then set about wiping out the Milky Way, with her army devouring God knows how many people, ships, and planets. Eventually, she captured and attempted to torture one of Carter's best friends. Despite claiming that the real Carter's emotions and memories weren't meaningless to her, and having 'given her word' that she wouldn't invade earth or kill Daniel Jackson, she promptly did both. So, in short: in the few months she existed she killed her fellow replicator and creator, Fifth; psychologically manipulated and tortured her human progenitor, Samantha Carter; committed galactic genocide; captured and killed one of her progenitor's very best friends and attempted to conquer their home planet; and all this in the image of a beloved galactic heroine, with just a little more ambition and a little less sentiment.

edited 17th Nov '13 12:20:29 AM by Morgenthaler

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#19224: Nov 16th 2013 at 1:35:24 PM

[up][up]The JL movies aren't part of the DCAU. They should go on Monster.WesternAnimation.

[up]Those Stargate entries look good to me. Not sure the quote at the end of Repli-Carter's entry is really need though. It seems to prove less she's a monster and more that she's The Unfettered.

edited 16th Nov '13 1:35:58 PM by OccasionalExister

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009

Total posts: 326,048
Top