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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#191776: Nov 16th 2019 at 3:17:03 PM

Alright, let's do this.

What's the Work?

The Child Eater is a 2014 novel by Rachel Pollack. Taking place in two separate worlds, one half of the story focuses on a psychic boy named Simon Wisdom and his father Jack's desperate attempts to protect him, while the other half focuses on Matyas, a boy who inveigles himself into a wizards' college, desperate to become a Master and learn the secret of flying. Though Simon and Matyas will never meet each other, they together must battle against an ancient evil preying on two worlds....the Child Eater.

Who Is the Child Eater?

Once known as Federaynak, the man who would become the Child Eater was formerly a disciple of Joachim the Brilliant, along with Florian the Wise. Federaynak discovered the Spell of Extension, which would enable him to live forever, but at a cost: to drain the lives of children and destroy every part of them. Hiding his name to prevent others from gaining power over him, Federaynak killed Florian, as she knew his true name, and became the Child Eater. Over the centuries, the Child Eater takes "special" children and slowly cleaves their bodies away with his stone knife, devouring them and keeping their disembodied, but fully-conscious, heads, extending his life until the head eventually withers away. And those are just the special kids; he devours other children as well, just because. Matyas, after a long quest in which he learns the Child Eater's name, inscribes it on dozens of Tarot cards "for the thousandth child".

In the present, with his current child, Caroline, withering away, the Child Eater seeks a replacement and sets his sights on Simon. Under the guise of a psychologist called Doctor Frederick Reina, the Child Eater tricks Jack into giving up Simon into his care. Simon ends up in the Child Eater's dimension, with Reina trying to feed Simon parts of himself, which would make Simon belong to him. Simon, learning the truth, attempts to flee, with Reina closing in. Jack, realizing the truth and guided by the spirit of his late wife, Rebecca (herself a psychic who had tried to protect Simon), throws the Tarot cards into the Child Eater's dimension. Simon, using his psychic abilities, discovers the Child Eater's name and, reciting a magic poem, hurls the Tarot cards at him, slicing him to pieces and destroying him for good.

Mitigating factors?

No, nothing. Immortality Immorality aside, he even kills and devours children despite it not even extending his life. At one point, when he meets Matyas in his dreams, he doesn't kill him because he believes Matyas is just as self-serving as he is....and instead erases all of Matyas' memories, leaving him to wander aimlessly as a homeless beggar, not even knowing his own name.

Final Verdict?

Pretty easy keep.

Edited by Clown-Face on Nov 16th 2019 at 3:42:24 AM

Why so serious?
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#191777: Nov 16th 2019 at 3:25:15 PM

[tup]Child Eater

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#191781: Nov 16th 2019 at 3:36:56 PM

[tup] Child Eater.

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#191784: Nov 16th 2019 at 4:26:13 PM

Sure to the Child Eater.

"The Witching Hour...Do I need to say it? It's an utterly fucked up scene especially when it gets too personal towards Goldia as her mouth stitched shut while seeing some of her reflections getting brutally murdered one by one and the thing is? Some of them reached Woobie levels of bad especially Enjel, Harpae and Lisette"

Err... Tentative yes to the Strange Boy. That thing (+ personal villainy stuff) sounds unique enough compared to Egliette and her dancers. What about Mr. Rabbit and Mrs. Fox? How do they contribute to the heinous standard?

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#191785: Nov 16th 2019 at 4:30:51 PM

Nay to the Strange Boy, at the least for now. The Child Eater sounds an easy yes, though.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#191787: Nov 16th 2019 at 5:09:56 PM

[tup]Child eater.

Speaking of RPG Maker horror, after reading the manga, I have to ask, can a non-CM character eventually become a CM? Or should a CM always be a CM? I ask because Ellen is rather sympathetic initially in the Diary prequel, and only slowly becomes corrupted by the Cat into the psycho she is in the game.

Also, about to play the MV remake. Once I beat it, expect a writeup for the Cat (finally).

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#191788: Nov 16th 2019 at 5:11:11 PM

[up]Yes, a non-CM character can become a CM, as long as it's clear everything redeeming about them is gone.

[down]Yes.

Edited by falcontalons on Nov 16th 2019 at 5:14:15 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#191789: Nov 16th 2019 at 5:12:07 PM

[up]Like King Boo, then?

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#191790: Nov 16th 2019 at 5:29:55 PM

Yea to the Child Eater. I like these obscure novel ones you do, Clown.

Now, one now that time's up, from Eden Zero as the character's arc has concluded, for the latest arc villain...Madam Kurenai.

Who is Madam Kurenai?

One of the main heroes', Homura, is a samurai and the student of a great heroine named Valkyrie...Valkyrie, a robotic warrior? Is missing and the search takes them to the world of Sun Jewel, a gorgeous seeming paradise and an incredibly wealthy planet, the home of jewels...it's also home to a ruthless tyrant...Madam Kurenai, the 'Crimson Lady.'

Who is Madam Kurenai?

Kurenai Kogetsu, mother of Homura...Kurenai's husband was deceased and she left her daughter where she ended up as a slave on Sun Jewel, run by the slaver Baron Mordo....Valkyrie, wanting to find Homura's missing mother, tracked her down to sun Jewel to save her....Kurenai was saved, and promised to return to Homura...she lied.

Kurenai seduced baron Mordo, murdered him and became an even worse tyrant, enslaving people and forcing them to mine jewels for her wealth, in hellish conditions with high fatalities, to the point she unleashed monsters by forcing them to delve in unsafe spots, where monsters would be unleashed on them, to create better jewels. Valkyrie was forced to fight to save the townspeople, dying heroically in battle, enraging Kurenai how the miners proceeded to honor valkyrie above her, keeping the nightmarish conditions even worse as long as she profits.

Kurenai runs things as a vicious mob boss tyrant, and anyone who steps out of line is vaporized by an orbital satellite she operates. She also tortures people for fun. When one model applies for a job at a major casino and touches her without permission? She burns his face off, using him or someone else as a tortured pet.

When Homura, Shiki and the rest of the Eden Zero arrive, Kurenai teams up with the wicked criminal Drakken Joe, but plots to take the Eden Zero herself...when the people are inspired to rise up, Kurenai tries to brutally suppress the rebellion...and when that fails, sick of their honoring Valkyrie? Decides to annihilate the entire labor district, slaughtering everyone there with the satellite, prompting Shiki and the others to fight back. Shiki engages Kurenai in her mech as she tries to simply slaughter everyone in the labor district herself....Kurenai is defeated and captured by an angry mob who agree to allow Homura to judge her

Realizing her mother has no feeling to her whatsoever, Homura lets her go, penniless and alone, saying that she wnts Kurenai out of her life forever. Kurenai flees, gloating how stupid Homura is...and the model, Cedric, who she disfigured? Cracks her in the face with a bat, saying she's going to pay for her crimes...leaving Kurenai to become a slave again for him and his gang wiht potential, uh...disturbing implications.

mitigating Qualities?

In terms of heinous standard, Kurenai has the highest bodycount so far, with slavery, attempted massacring of a huge portion of a planet, loads of cruelty and violence...she's easily the worst so far, but EZ has been doing the 'niche' thing seemingly intentonally. Hiro Mashima is on record of wanting to do less redeemable villains and to make them fit different tiers, so here we are.

Now, redeeming qualities? None. She pretends to love Homura twice, but both are a Wounded Gazelle Gambit and she's happy that Homura will be vaporized in the labor district. She's ice cold, greedy and cruel with any decency an act. She's wantonly cruel and sadistic.

I'm not a fan of Karmic Rape in any incarnation and consider it revolting but it's left to only implication, even if it shouldn't have been that, like with Mothergod....I really loathe that, but nothing to bar Kurenai from keeping.

Conclusion?

A yes.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#191791: Nov 16th 2019 at 5:31:56 PM

Having read Edens Zero... Kurenai is an aye cool

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
AlmightyKingPrawn I can chase the wind, I can race the rain from Down at Fraggle Rock *clap clap* Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
I can chase the wind, I can race the rain
#191794: Nov 16th 2019 at 5:46:35 PM

Hey guys, I'm really sorry I [tup]'d King Boo before discussion date. I had a REALLY bad day that day, don't know what I was thinking. For real now, [tup] King Boo expansion. Also, [tup] Child Eater and Kurenai.

She/her. Profile pic is by Richard Michael Gomez @StarmansArt. Please watch Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock. https://youtu.be/Vm92JNgPbqk
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#191795: Nov 16th 2019 at 5:51:48 PM

Wow, after three, whole, series, Hiro Mashima FINALLY made a female CM.

Enthusiastic [tup] to Kurenai.

Speaking of female CMs, does anyone want me to link to the manga version of the Diary of Ellen on Google Drive? It is rather short, and can help clear up any issues about Ellen being a CM.

Edited by MasterN on Nov 16th 2019 at 5:53:02 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#191796: Nov 16th 2019 at 5:56:27 PM

[up] You can read it via mangakakalot and yes, it is short. Around 9 chapters iirc

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#191797: Nov 16th 2019 at 5:59:19 PM

[up]And, in your opinion, the (rather sympathetic) depiction of Ellen does not save her from CM status? At least in the actual game?

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#191798: Nov 16th 2019 at 5:59:22 PM

[tup] to the Child Eater and Kurenai

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#191800: Nov 16th 2019 at 6:04:04 PM

Definite [tup] for Kurenai

It's Spooky Month!

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