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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#191726: Nov 15th 2019 at 7:20:45 PM

[up] That is fair, but then how do we determine if Devil Hulk has agency here? I could post some videoes if those would be helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKQ6f4M9O08

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1-5N6ObwJM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YecW64GsW9A&list=PLnXKNW_Yi6kN63J07Qau-yp_m4MmGW9n5&index=17

I am not saying Devil Hulk counts, I am asking how do we judge split personalities?

The game is a separate continuity from the comics, but it's interesting to note that Devil Hulk in the comics is a bit more of an anti-hero, hating most people, but having a soft spot for Bruce.

Edited by Overlord on Nov 15th 2019 at 7:34:36 AM

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#191727: Nov 15th 2019 at 7:26:55 PM

IMO, split personalies absolutely have agency unless stated otherwise. I mean, you wouldn't downvote a demon simply for being a demon would you? If the split personality is shown to understand morality and capable of manipulating those around them, showing they are capable of being good but simply chooses evil than I don't see what the issue is.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#191728: Nov 15th 2019 at 7:40:54 PM

[up] I do believe it should be a case of assume agency unless stated otherwise. But the demon comparison Dosent quite work

Things are really about to get Fun around here
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#191729: Nov 15th 2019 at 7:41:46 PM

Abstaining on Devil Hulk.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#191730: Nov 15th 2019 at 7:48:13 PM

[tup] to Cooler, Mateo

Abstain on Devil Hulk, but I think bringing actual psychiatry into this is a bad idea, since fictional Split Personalities have zero to do with the real way DID works

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#191731: Nov 15th 2019 at 7:51:35 PM

Yeah... There's one thing we all have to remember: Artistic License is everywhere. I'll abstain as well.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#191732: Nov 15th 2019 at 7:56:39 PM

Abstain on Devil Hulk though great job on the EP Overlord!

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#191733: Nov 15th 2019 at 7:57:15 PM

I only bring real DID into this sp we can sort out circumstances where it's not explicitly stated one way or another.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#191734: Nov 15th 2019 at 8:00:41 PM

[up][up] Thanks ElfenLiedFan90.

All these opinions are fair, I do think its fun to discuss a character who is not cut and dry.

Edited by Overlord on Nov 15th 2019 at 8:01:11 AM

hegelvonaxel Since: Feb, 2018
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#191736: Nov 15th 2019 at 11:23:12 PM

Isn't Devil Hulk confirmed to be this new Immortal Hulk Persona, who is a (albeit very brutal) Anti-Hero? Thats an obvious no-no.

Edit: Ah nvm its about the game

Edited by Forenperser on Nov 15th 2019 at 8:25:36 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
randomtroper89 from The Fire Nation Since: Nov, 2010
#191738: Nov 16th 2019 at 12:20:02 AM

My suggestion for the Tucker writeup

Without Remorse: Henry Tucker is the leader of a drug ring that smuggles high-grade heroin into the Baltimore area inside the bodies of American soldiers killed in The Vietnam War. He distributes the drugs via a stable of prostitutes that he controls using drugs, rape, and torture. When one of his girls escapes and befriends the hero, ex-Navy SEAL John Kelly, Tucker has her kidnapped, then rapes her, tortures her, and mutilates her corpse, forcing the other girls to watch, before dumping it in a public fountain. As Kelly tracks him down while murdering his people, he grows increasingly desperate, going so far as to kill his own associates out of paranoia, then attempts to kill his remaining girls when they prove to be a security risk.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#191739: Nov 16th 2019 at 12:34:26 AM

[tup]Mateo

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#191740: Nov 16th 2019 at 12:46:59 AM

[tup] to Cooler and Mateo. Abstain on Devil Hulk.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#191741: Nov 16th 2019 at 2:06:07 AM

Random: Yeah, that does work better for Tucker.

Abstain on Devil Hulk.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#191742: Nov 16th 2019 at 5:03:47 AM

I believe I got the first candidate from Battlefield video game series, which surprises me why no one checked it before

What's the work?

Battlefield: Bad Company 2 is the sequel to the successful Battlefield: Bad Company game, which is in itself a spin-off to overall Battlefield franchise, completely unconnected to it. Depicting a fictional war between Russia and US, the story follows the titular "Bad Company" unit, which consisted out of four men, Sergeant Samuel D. Redford, Private Preston Marlowe (the protagonist of the duology), Private Terrence Sweetwater and Private George Gordon Haggard Jr. As US command send them out on dangerous missions to help fight off the invading Russia (who by the time of the sequel, started conquering the world), they face a Russian Colonel, who wants to use a secret weapon of mass destruction to destroy US as a nation.

My candidate is that Colonel - Arkady Kirilenko.

Who is Colonel Arkady Kirilenko?

The most active member of Russian force in trying to destroy US and a leader of the project to recover an old and lost Japanese's weapon of mass destruction, called Scalar Weapon, which is capable of creating a massive blast that destroys every piece of electronics in the area and powerful enough to kill anyone, who will be close to the blast and didn't manage to find any cover. Japanese hoped to win World War II with this, but US stopped them. Planning to use it on the US, to destroy part of it and also "kill" all their technology, allowing Russia to easily invade it and take it over, Arkady uses the help of Agent Aguire, whose father was sent on suicide mission to recover that weapon during World War II, which was in reality a way for US to see how powerful the weapon was, as they knew Japanese would activate that in right time and all population of an island, along with a squad of their own marines will die anyway. As Arkady leads Latin American Militia and Russian forces in committing numerous amount of torture (we see several tied up dead bodies in the camps of his forces), death and destruction (his forces are shown to kill thousands soldiers and animals and reducing villages and cities into rubbles), as well as trying to track down Scalar Weapon, Bad Company pick up his trail and observe him killing a spy, who was among his troops.

Afterwards Bad Company received orders to capture the Colonel, leading to them chasing him and "freeing" Aguire, whom they believe to be Arkady's prisoner. As Aguire manipulates them into finding the compound for Scalar Weapon (the final piece) and lead them into an ambush, planned by Arkady, Arkady gloats, while then betraying and killing Aguire, preparing to murder all Bad Company unit, only for their pilot to save them, leading to Arkady ordering his henchman to blow him up.

Finishing the weapon and placing it on his personal plane, Arkady tested it on US forces in Colombian city, which was already partially destroyed by the fight between his forces and US army. As the blast destroyed all the power, leading to helicopters and other machines falling from the sky and further destroying the city, killing all US forces and big part of his own men, Arkady flies the plane to US, in his attempt to use it there.

Bad Company boards his plane and destroyed the weapon, leading to plane being torn apart and Arkady trying to kill Sweetwater by trying to take away his parachute, as they fall down, only for Marlowe to kill him. As Bad Company celebrate their success, their General inform them that Russia retreated and decided to attack from Alaska, the result of which can be decided in multiplayer.

Heinousness?

Battlefield: Bad Company duology has a high heinous standard, what with Russia taking over the world, while waging war with America, but Arkady manages to stand out by being the most active member of Russian military, who tries to destroy the whole nation with weapon of mass destruction (he is the only Russian who decided to use it) and has quite high bodycount, with his forces killing a large number of people and leaving the cities and villages in rubbles.

Mitigating Qualities?

None.

Conclusion?

I will say Yes.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#191744: Nov 16th 2019 at 7:08:33 AM

[tup] to Arkady.

I guess my Omega Red pic will be going up?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#191745: Nov 16th 2019 at 7:17:04 AM

Yeah, please add it to the Drafts.

Sure to Arkady (VVV's, not Omega Red [lol]).

Edited by ACW on Nov 16th 2019 at 10:18:17 AM

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Critica7 Self-Declared King of Everything from Smallville Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Self-Declared King of Everything
#191747: Nov 16th 2019 at 7:39:05 AM
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#191748: Nov 16th 2019 at 7:44:37 AM

[tup]Arkady

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#191750: Nov 16th 2019 at 8:07:02 AM

Next In Death proposal to hopefully come tomorrow.


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