During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Even without the finale, Unalaq did so damn much these past episodes to justify his placement as a Complete Monster.
@sanfranman: "Heavily implied" means you're inferring it from what isn't actually there. It's a guess about what could have led up to the situation shown. There's no one who points in that direction, nor anyone who even bats an eyelid over the event at all. It's all kind of downplayed and swept under the rug. As far as the standards of the story matters, it's inconsequential.
The two middle sisters seem pretty motivated to kill their Linaria, especially the second oldest. None of them care about Linaria. I've met quite a few people who don't care what happens to some of their family members. Does that make them Complete Monsters?
Check out my fanfiction!Regarding Spider from Gran Torino is the rape and drive by enough to push him into being CM? In the course of a movie, can a standard Jerkass become a Complete Monster?
Well now it's a given that Varrick, as suspected, is NOT a Complete Monster. He points out all the good he did as well as the bad, and even after being defeated and jailed, he STILL helps the people who stopped him. He's just Crazy Awesome like that.
Unalaq...the finale (which will be streaming at midnight) will decide that, but I'm leaning towards
. Korra said that Vaatu has apparently influenced him to make him THIS bad, and while he's undeniably evil and in the wrong, he's had too many Jerkass Has a Point moments. Even now when he talks about how just light with no dark is not balance and how he has more spiritual mastery than Korra, the one who's supposed to be keeping the balance.
All of Unalaq's Jerkass Has a Point moments have been shown to make him a supreme hypocrite and thus not count.
Korra episodes are posted online to nick.com (the exact URL varies, IIRC, but it's a big splashy button right on the front page). Usually they go up the day after, but as noted in the URL above they're doing a special showing.
edited 15th Nov '13 7:37:18 PM by Nohbody
All your safe space are belong to Trump- Most villains, even the Dark, have some redeeming qualities. Not the members of the Savage Six. They just seem to like terrorising and killing people, although their leader apparently has an goal that he's working towards, not that that's very reassuring. Hemming, as the organizer of their attacks, would seem to be a good candidate for this trope.
Would this be considered a group?
- Complete Monster: Cockatrice, who torments Senex's hens (including Pertelote), kills his own father, and tries to engineer the return of Wyrm.
- Wyrm himself, who tricked the Bird With No Tongue into losing her voice For the Evulz.
Not sure if Wyrm is as bad as Cockatrice.
- The Marquis who marries women and then kills them for sexual satisfaction.
Stub
- Complete Monster: Between the betraying everyone who helps her (by breaking their legs and leaving them to be eaten by lions in one instance), kidnapping Garion's son, attempting to start a civil war in the West, successfully starting one in the East, consorting with demons, brain-washing Ce'Nedra, regularly trying to break the rules of Prophecy, cannibalism, cruelty to animals, and standing around naked in front of a toddler, Zandramas really pushes the envelope. That's all on top, mind you, of already being a priestess of a Religion of Evil who liked to cut out people's hearts and bathe in their blood while nude. Even Torak and The Dark Prophecy think she was a psycho.
How's this?
Spider...as far as he's concerned, he never shows any redeeming features prior to his worst actions. He gets worse and worse, but it's more, IMO, showing what a prick he is. The biggest issue I have is if he stands out enough next to his gang.
Brennus: Rewrite so Hemming is left
The book of Dun Crow: Looks odd, but cut Wyrm
Bloody Chamber: Cut
Belgariad: We have a writeup for Zandramas, and she's from The Mallorean
@The Overlord I don't see why not, especially since a lot of Moral Event Horizon moments are meant to be retroactively revealing.
@Another Duck I don't know enough about Gargantia to discuss the character but I would like to note that your last line is a terrible argument and a borderline non sequitor. Real life people can't be character tropes.
Edit: since I forgot to comment earlier to the responses to my "what counts as too messed up" post: It was mostly a general statement that had been for a while, though it was the Seagal films brought it out since the critiqued elements (the messed up implication of the narrative "justifying" whatever bad fate the villain gets so that the audience will enjoy it), while probably exceptionally badly done in those cases, are incredibly common across fiction in general. Yes, ACW, those are exactly the sort of series I was referring to. Ambar, I agree everything done so far has been entirely reasonable.
edited 15th Nov '13 9:07:11 PM by Crowley
Okay, yeah. Unalaq counts. Nothing more to say. When he fuses with the ultimate personification of darkness and chaos, he doesn't even change at all. Everything he does is stuff he was gonna do anyways. In essence...Unalaq, welcome to the list. Here is a writeup
- Unalaq, Korra's Evil Uncle of Season 2 of The Legend of Korra is at first the Holier Than Thou leader of the Northern Water Tribe who is angry how the Southern tribe has lost its spirituality under his elder brother Tonraq. Upon the reappearance of Dark Spirits, Unalaq takes the chance to move in his armies to seize control of the Southern Tribe and has anyone who may oppose removed in a Kangaroo Court before Korra discovers he is the one behind the events that got her father exiled from his home tribe, allowing Unalaq take over. He had gotten barbarians to attack his own home so Tonraq could 'awaken' Dark Spirits to attack their tribe. Unalaq reveals himself as an opportunistic tyrant whose feelings for his own twin children can best be described as 'uncaring' as when his son Desna is injured, almost fatally, Unalaq tells Desna's sister Eska to simply leave him to die as opening the Spirit World is more important. When he gets into the Spirit World, Unalaq forces Korra's cooperation by attacking and threatening to destroy the soul of Jinora, a little girl. When Korra caves in, Unalaq tries to destroy her soul anyways. Unalaq latter assaults the Southern Water tribe and delivers a No-Holds-Barred Beatdown to Tonraq, sparing his life solely so Tonraq can see Unalaq win completely. Unalaq reveals his true plan is to free Vaatu, the spirit of darkness and chaos, to fuse with him into a Dark Avatar in order to usher in tne thousand years of his own dark rule. After he succeeds in merging with Vaatu, Unalaq battles Korra and tears the spirit of light and order, Rava, out of her, brutally attempting to obliterate her. After returning to the material world, he instantly sets out to destroy Republic City and all within it, declaring his rule has begun.
edited 15th Nov '13 10:56:43 PM by Lightysnake
Yeah, he and Vaatu more seemed to merge into a single being, but let's face it...he had the crimes to get on this list before that, and I think "wanting to merge with Vaatu and usher in the age of darkness" is enough to count as a crime.
Desna and Eska's mom is mentioned when Eska says "what'll we tell mother?" But Unalaq never even mentions her
Holy shit on Unalaq. I take it back: he's a
. That moment where he gleefully attacked Raava over and over, in essence slaughtering the spirits of every Avatar who had ever existed...DAMN. And I think even his own children realizing that he was a deplorable man who's better off dead was the selling point. That man had self righteous delusions, but really cared for nothing but himself.
edited 15th Nov '13 10:10:00 PM by ANewMan
Ugh. I'm really going to hate to say this because of how awful he is, but I'm actually not so sure about Unalaq qualifying. Yes he doesn't get an Alas, Poor Villain or any sympathetic moments or the like, but in the previous episode he finally revealed his reasons for joining with Vatuu. He teamed up with Vatuu because he wanted to make the world "better" by joining the human world and the spirit world together, allowing both races to coexist. He says there shouldn't be a "bridge" between the two worlds, because the two worlds should never be kept apart. They should all live together, in his mind. Just to play Devil's Advocate, this goal might be enough to shift him away from Knight Templar into Well-Intentioned Extremist, seeing as he thinks the world would be better off with the two races living together. Granted he's an atrocious bastard willing to tear the old world down so the new one can rise, but still. What I'm trying to say is that while he's primarily motivated by selfishness, he might partially be motivated by altruism, and that could be enough to disqualify him.
edited 15th Nov '13 10:14:13 PM by OccasionalExister
I don't think so at all. Keep in mind he instantly tries to destroy Republic City first, and his ranting is nothing more than a vicious hypocrite, and it's quite hollow. The man has fomented tons of chaos solely for personal power. His actions show his words are just hollow Holier Than Thou BS.
All his actions go to further a world where he rules, and if he has to destroy everything for that? Small price to pay.
edited 15th Nov '13 10:16:24 PM by Lightysnake

Presumably on Nickelodeon's website.