During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yes to Gibson.
Gentle Laborer
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Gibson.
Agreed, trimming would be nice.
I thought sharks were my friends.
Yay to Gibson.
RIP KissAnime.
The Draftsman of Doom
Lucina
Okay, I'll take care of that tomorrow, it's getting late here where I am, and I'll be going to bed soon.
Anways, if I'm allowed to, to Gibson
Gentle Laborer
Alright, been some time since my last EP.
What is the work? The Girl Who Sees Smells, or Sensory Couple, is a 16-episode fantasy-thriller Korean drama from 2015 based on the webtoon of same name; it was tragically the last project involving Park Yoo-chun, the actor who portrayed the male main protagonist, before he was arrested some months ago for drug use. The story centers around two people with different abilities: Oh Cho-rim, a young Amnesiac Hero with the power to (duh) see smells, and Choi Moo-gak, a Cowboy Cop who is incapable of feeling pain or anything by that matter, even taste. After their lives (literally) collide, the two begin fighting crime together while also searching for the man who destroyed their families in the past.
Who is he? The seemingly good-hearted and suave Kwon Jae-hee is a TV personality with his own cooking show, the man is perfect: He's attractive, charismatic, famous, wealthy and most importantly, a genius, except he is also a psychopath with a Lack of Empathy that is the size of Jupiter, and the true identity of the Barcode Killer, the Overarching Villain of the show. Originally named Jay Kwon Ford in his youth, Kwon was adopted by an American couple and suffered abuse at the hands of his father, which gave birth to a disorder called Prosopagnosia, his underdeveloped brain began rejecting people's faces out of fear. Suspected to have killed both of his parents in an "accident" when their RV caught fire with them inside, Kwon realized that he had an innate desire to kill people, and if he couldn't see faces, then he could look at their lives instead, harboring a twisted idea that he could literally own people's lives in some way and keep them for himself.
Dropping out of Harvard Medical School when a psychological test deemed him unfit to be a doctor, Kwon became conflicted with the life-saving nature of the profession and returned to Korea to be a chef instead, simply because it gave him an opportunity to kill living things without reprimand (it's actually pretty common for a psychopath to be a chef). Fully embracing his urge to kill fellow human beings and collect their lives, Kwon kidnapped and murdered the ex-wife of the detective who would later become Cho-rim's adoptive father; because he doesn't really like touching people's bodies, Kwon normally suffocates his victims with a Deadly Gas after having forced them to chronicle their lives in an empty book for six days and then carves a barcode onto their wrists as his Calling Card, which is his way of reducing them to less than human, mere covers for his books. Since the woman's death in 2010, Kwon has been annually killing people and adding their lives to his library in a 12-month cycle, with two of his victims being Cho-rim's parents; Cho-rim herself went into a coma after she was hit by a car while trying to run away from Kwon.
Kwon, a perfectionist who just couldn't leave her alive, visited the hospital and mistook Cho-rim for a girl who shared her original name, Choi Eun-seol, who just happened to be Moo-gak's sister, slashing her throat and killing her. Believing to have killed his target, she actually woke up from the coma with no memories of her past and the ability to see smells. She also would be adopted by a friendly retired detective, Oh Jae-pyo (ironically, his actor had previously portrayed Gap-dong) and given a new identity, Jae-pyo did this in an effort to give her a better life, and the knowledge that his wife had been the first victim of the Barcode Killer after their divorce. In 2015, Kwon is now a beloved, rich celebrity with his own mansion and a hidden secret chamber in his basement, which he uses to imprison his victims, filling the room with gas when they outlive their usefulness. Because of his status, Kwon got romantically involved with a fashion model, Joo Ma-ri, who had even given him a cute little dog as a gift, Moong-chi; obviously, Kwon never loved her and her murder at his hands is what starts the plot, with Kwon taking the chance to shed some Crocodile Tears once her body is found. The closest thing that Kwon has to a best friend is the show's Red Herring, Dr. Chun Baek-kyung, who may act creepy but is actually a nice person deep down, and even he falls victim to Kwon after discovers that he murdered his own girlfriend; both Ma-ri and Baek-kyung are part of Kwon's collection.
Continuously playing mind games with the police, Cho-rim becomes his assistant, and despite their supposed friendship, Kwon immediately goes after her once he realizes that she is the sole survivor of his killings, while also fixating his attention on his arch-nemesis, Moo-gak, stabbing him in the chest in an attempt to assassinate him and then sending a clown to his hospital room as his idea of a joke. When he is baited into kidnapping Moo-gak's superior, Lieutenant Yeom Mi, instead of Cho-rim, Kwon is genuinely perplexed by the concept of a real friendship and confesses to having no motive to kill Mo-gak: "Not everything in this world has a reason", sadistically giving her a countdown of the exact time that she is going to die. Once Yeom tricks him with the possibility that his previous victims wrote lies, Kwon goes into a Tranquil Fury and monologues about how people are "genuine when they face death" and how he "killed everyone after owning their lives", eventually gassing her as well; luckly, Yeom is saved just before the gas could kill her.
Finally arrested for the Barcode murders, Moo-gak actually tries to be kind to him and simply asks him to apologize for killing his sister and Cho-rim's parents, his reaction? "I'll tell you how I felt when I killed your sister", promising that they would "definately meet again". Not long after Kwon's interrogation, the van transporting him suspiciously fell into a river, resulting in the deaths of innocent policemen; Kwon himself is assumed to have been killed as well. Returning and kidnapping Cho-rim on the day of her wedding with Moo-gak just to be a dick, Kwon tries to detonate Moo-gak with a homemade bomb, smiling as the bomb explodes and telling Cho-rim that her husband "probably blew up to pieces" before trying to suffocate her. Moo-gak, having avoided the bomb, saves his wife and chases after Kwon. In their final confrontation, Moo-gak, who is determined to kill him, gains the upper hand and Kwon cowardly pleads for his life while Laughing Mad at the same time; Moo-gak, deciding to obey the laws and show him mercy, tries to arrest instead, and Kwon takes the opportunity to try to kill him anyway, except Moo-gak manages to grab the pipe that he was holding and throws Kwon from the top of the building to his death.
Mitigating Factors? Even if we don't even get to see the abuse, his excuse would have actually made sense if Kwon tried to portray himself as a tragic villain and the product of a dysfunctional household, but nope, he is never treated as a sympathetic character and his actions are seen as "unforgivable" by the protagonists, especially when you consider the fact that his nemesis also suffered a traumatic experience (thanks to Kwon) and he became a hero; he's not even a "complex" character because he doesn't even try to make people feel bad for him. He also takes care of Moong-chi, but we only see the dog in a few episodes, and the dog's presence comes across as an attempt at making himself look like a victim, considering he murdered the person who gave the dog to him; his books are the only thing that he is emotionally attached to, and messing with them is the only way to get a genuine reaction out of him. The only thing genuinely good about this guy is his theme song.
Heinous? Every other antagonist is either a regular murderer or a small-time criminal, Kwon is a Serial Killer who's willing to kill even those who are close to him to satisfy his twisted desire to own human lives.
Conclusion?
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Nov 13th 2019 at 6:20:48 PM
The wifi here sucks
Kwon. Does he count in the webtoon at all?
Gentle Laborer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
IIRC the webtoon has over 250 chapters, so I'm not sure if the plot is exactly the same.
Goku Black
lwon
The wifi here sucks
Mind if I put the webtoon on my to do list?
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Gentle Laborer
No problem, go ahead.
to Crank Gibson and Kwon.
I thought sharks were my friends.
Yay to Kwon.
RIP KissAnime.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
The Draftsman of Doom
Phoebe Spengler
to Crank Gibson and Kwon Jae-hee.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Hey guys! I'm back and I just wanted to tell you a good news: I finished watching several playthroughs of Death Stranding. PM me to know who counts in there or not. That discussion would be...Interesting so be sure to look forward to that.
Also, sure to your candidate Cr0w!
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Nov 13th 2019 at 6:31:23 AM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Gibson and Kwon
Showtime!
to Kwon
Carrot Clone
Kwon
Needs to be cut down heavily, I'd say.