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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#191051: Nov 9th 2019 at 6:25:29 PM

[tup] Drachenfels

[up] Blaire never turned into a Variant and died a perfectly "normal" human, unlike his golf buddy.

IukaSylvie from Kyoto, Japan Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#191052: Nov 9th 2019 at 6:29:08 PM

[tup] Drachenfels.

I'm preparing to propose Damiya from The Beast Player, the first favorite novel series I've ever read. I finished the "What is the work?" section. Although I can read the entire series in Japanese, to determine if he's heinous enough will be hard work because one must take the untranslated and unadapted material into consideration. I hope Cathy Hirano will translate the rest of the series, including the spin-off stories.

Edited by IukaSylvie on Nov 9th 2019 at 11:54:36 PM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#191053: Nov 9th 2019 at 6:48:54 PM

Wait, Damiya is already up, is he not?

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
IukaSylvie from Kyoto, Japan Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#191054: Nov 9th 2019 at 6:52:16 PM

His anime incarnation has been approved, but his original incarnation is not.

TBNY (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#191055: Nov 9th 2019 at 7:01:46 PM

Randomly found this entry in a James Spader film called Dream Lover whilst Wiki Walking. This looks like it was done years ago since the YMMV page hasn't been edited or anything.

"Complete Monster: Lena. Ray realizes that since Lena has been with someone else since before they were even married, he doesn't know for sure if their children are really his. Lena says she knows, but refuses to tell him. If they are, she married and had two children with him just to get his money."

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#191056: Nov 9th 2019 at 7:03:59 PM

No misogynist undertones there, no sir.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#191057: Nov 9th 2019 at 7:07:46 PM

That doesn't even touch the baseline standard. Not only that, but according to the page itself, it ends with Ray murdering Lena while planning to fake insanity to get himself acquitted.

Why so serious?
TBNY (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#191058: Nov 9th 2019 at 7:11:01 PM

So, does this mean, Spader has another CM entry or just nuke the entry itself? It sounds like this movie came right after Poison Ivy but before Crush.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#191059: Nov 9th 2019 at 7:11:31 PM

Why would Spader have one from this? No, clear no. He's portrayed as 'justified' there.

TBNY (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#191060: Nov 9th 2019 at 7:17:23 PM

Ah, the Twist Ending entry makes it sound like he's the real villain of the story and such.

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#191061: Nov 9th 2019 at 7:17:50 PM

So, since the unapproved CM entry is the only trope on the film's YMMV page, how do we handle it? (I tried before, but am unable to remove the only trope on a YMMV page.)

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#191062: Nov 9th 2019 at 7:20:21 PM

I was browsing YMMV.Mortal Kombat Conquest and noticed AM_NK removed Shao Khan's CM entry and then put it on Monster.Mortal Kombat which was made part of a long banner list. Permission to put the entry back on the show's YMMV page?

EDIT: Going by the YMMV page's history, ImSpidey2 also added a tearjerker entry about the finale and Shao Kahn that could disqualify him from being a CM.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.MortalKombatConquest

Edited by lalalei2001 on Nov 9th 2019 at 7:25:32 AM

The Protomen enhanced my life.
TBNY (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#191063: Nov 9th 2019 at 7:22:15 PM

Awesomekid, maybe adding another YMMV trope that relates to that movie?

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#191064: Nov 9th 2019 at 7:29:19 PM

About Spader, we have had a Designated Hero CM approved before (Griffin from Red Zone Cuba).

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#191065: Nov 9th 2019 at 7:29:50 PM

He has one killing that's portrayed as justified and kids he loves. This isn't gonna need to be much of a discussion

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#191066: Nov 9th 2019 at 7:31:15 PM

@TBNY

I know jackshit about the film, so it'll need to be someone else who adds the replacement YMMV trope

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#191067: Nov 9th 2019 at 7:34:07 PM

Ah, so he fails the heinousness standard regardless (and has loved ones). Unfamiliar with the film, so thank you for pointing that out.

As for Shao Khan, perhaps we should discuss this potential disqualifier in more detail.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#191068: Nov 9th 2019 at 7:35:08 PM

There isn't one for him. His care for Kitana doesn't hold up when he has her murdered

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#191069: Nov 9th 2019 at 7:35:46 PM

The entry said "* Tear Jerker: The ending is already quite bleak, in that Shao Kahn wins at the end, as he goes through each and every keepsake of the fighters he had defeated, all with his usual Evil Is Hammy demeanor...but the persona drops when he gets to Kitana's fan blades, showing nothing but remorse for killing his own daughter. Even when he gets to the last keepsakes, his tone of voice is more dramatic than jovial. Quite a far cry from his sociopathic canon counterpart."

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#191070: Nov 9th 2019 at 7:36:16 PM

He's gruff, but it's nowhere near enough to clarify it as redeeming as he has her murdered without hesitation. It's not enough to cut him

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#191071: Nov 9th 2019 at 7:36:33 PM

Ehhh, when it comes to Tear Jerker entries involving the Charachters, I feel we should just ignore those as that's as subjective as it gets.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#191072: Nov 9th 2019 at 7:42:46 PM

OK. Should I put the CM entry back on the series' YMMV page?

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#191073: Nov 9th 2019 at 7:44:49 PM

[up] yes, and please don't delete any other entry again unless you have thread permission

Things are really about to get Fun around here
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#191074: Nov 9th 2019 at 7:45:58 PM

So, since the unapproved CM entry is the only trope on the film's YMMV page, how do we handle it? (I tried before, but am unable to remove the only trope on a YMMV page.)

Apologies if I'm late at commenting on this, but one thing you can do is cutlist the page, citing that the only entry on it is an unapproved Complete Monster entry.

I did the same thing with the Houses of the Blooded YMMV page, only that one had an unapproved Magnificent Bastard entry.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Nov 9th 2019 at 7:46:23 AM

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#191075: Nov 9th 2019 at 7:48:55 PM

[up][up] I didn't remove it, AM_NK did.

I put it back with a link to the thread in the edit reason!

Edited by lalalei2001 on Nov 9th 2019 at 7:51:08 AM

The Protomen enhanced my life.

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