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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

AdamDos123 Since: Nov, 2019
#190876: Nov 8th 2019 at 3:28:11 PM

So, we have a "no" on a character here. Well, downvoted cases do happen.

So, bye for the time.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#190877: Nov 8th 2019 at 3:34:13 PM

ACW: Kingsley's the Big Bad of season one (although he only appears in person in the final episode). He seems to be the big bad for season two, but is usurped by Weaver about halfway through and has a lot less role in the events even before that with Miller being The Heavy.

I'm also a tad concerned by the final line as he doesn't have Jones killed. Any suggestions on changes?

Edited by MGD107 on Nov 8th 2019 at 3:40:42 AM

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#190878: Nov 8th 2019 at 3:40:08 PM

[tup] to Palmer, Kendricks and Roscoe

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#190879: Nov 8th 2019 at 3:45:11 PM

"killing nearly everyone involved the Tehran conspiracy after being forced to prepone it for a few years."?

Is that supposed to be postpone?

lrrose Since: Jul, 2009
#190880: Nov 8th 2019 at 3:45:47 PM

So, The Outer Worlds was released two weeks ago.

No one counts. The game's main antagonist, the Board, is the government of a capitalist hellscape that practically enslaves the working class and is so incompetent that it created a famine threatening to destroy the entire colony. However, there isn't a single individual to pin all of the Board's crimes are: the villainy is more systemic.

There are two major named Board antagonists: Chairman Charles Rockwell and Adjutant Sophia Akande.

Rockwell is nominally the leader of the Board, but it's implied that Sophia does most of the actual work. You can persuade Rockwell to team up with you in the finale, but he only agrees to save his own skin. However, he isn't really directly tied to any of the Board's atrocities.

Sophia is the more ruthless of the two. Her plan to stop the famine is to force the working class into cryostasis so the wealthy don't have to give up their lives of luxury until the Board's scientists determine how to end the famine. She also attempts to wipe out one of the few settlements that found out how to grow nutricious food because the settlement won't bow to her authority. However, if you convince Sophia to surrender, the Where Are They Now epilogue implies that she made a genuine Heel–Face Turn.

tl;dr The Board is a horrific antagonist, but none of its individual members qualify for this trope.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#190881: Nov 8th 2019 at 3:47:31 PM

Could Sophia if she doesn't surrender count? Multiple Endings and all that?

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#190882: Nov 8th 2019 at 3:49:53 PM

ACW: Yeah that works, and yeah sorry "postpone".

NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#190883: Nov 8th 2019 at 3:50:34 PM

So two weeks are over, time for an EP for Hitman 2 latest Elusive Target.

The candidate

The Censor, a Serial Killer who grades his victim depending on how much the struggled. During a conversation with a party guest, he introduces himself as Joseph Gorski, although this may as well just an alias and not his real name.

His deeds:

Believing that everybody has the potential to be a murderer, he wants is victims to “realize and act out on that potential.” During his search for “someone who will challenge their fate”, he’s killed over 15 people in Vermont and left post-it notes with grades on their corpses. The more the victim struggles the better the grade. His preferred method is attacking his victims with a knife and in one rather gruesome case, a women was founded tied-up and bled out in a basement. His implied goal is to find somehow who actually manages to fight back and kill him: The ultimate proof of his believe.

He recently arrived in the town of Whittelon Creek, where he claimed his latest two victims. During the mission itself he can be found at a Neighborhood Garden Party, chatting with guest and asking them question to make a list of candidates from which he plans to choose his next victim.

He also seems to be really proud of his work, asking party guest watching a news report about one of his latest victims what they think about the killer. When 47 simply tells him that he’s seen worse, the Censor actually sounds insulted.

But in the end The Censor just another target for 47, who finally put an end to his killing spree.

Heinous Standards

Unlike the vast majority of 47’s targets The Censor isn’t a powerful person with money, influence and a large number of armed guards. He only has himself and his wits, which makes him stand out among the kingpins, CE Os and politicians that usually end up on 47’s hit list.Even Edward Wade from Absolution had a large number of goons when he massacred the staff of the orphanage.

However, he's also not the first Serial Killer in franchise.

In the previous game there was the Angel of Death, a former nurse working in retirement homes whom I E Ped here. Her presumed victim count may be as high as 50, but it’s unknown how many of these people were truly killed by her and how many died of natural causes. And in the end, her crimes happen off-screen which is why she was downvoted in the first place.

We also have Helen West, an old women living in Whittelton Creek. Surprisingly not a target, but an ordinary NPC. On the outside a kind old lady selling muffins, she secretly harbors murderous urges and has the habit of spiking her food with various substances. However, she has only two confirmed victims and she claims both kills were accident. One was a college student who fell to his death when she spiked his drink, the other one was a neighbor who died due to an allergic reaction after eating her muffin. That said, she seem to have embraced her murderous urges and plans to kill at one other person. There are also various jars with human brains in her basement, with no future information about how she got them. Still the Censor beats her body count and arguably all her crimes happened off-screen.

Finally I would like to point out that in a franchise where 47 has killed over 100 different targets, only three of them were serial killers and each of them has a different MO. So The Censor stands out among the other targets and his fellow killers.

Mitigating Qualities:

This is going to be short. Yes, he only choses people as victims that can fight back, but that’s not because of any moral standards. He wants people that can fight back to confirm his believe that everyone can be a killer.

My Verdict

The Censor is one guy with no resources who has managed to kill over 15 people. Three of his victims are shown during the mission briefing, so he doesn’t get disqualified due to Offstage Villainy. While not having much backstory, he show a distinct personality and is not a Generic Doomsday Villain. He’s one of only three serial killers among over hundred targets, spread over seven games.

Therefore after some considerate, I’ll give him a [tup]

Edited by NTG on Nov 8th 2019 at 3:50:52 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#190884: Nov 8th 2019 at 3:52:27 PM

Once VVV rewrites Wiseman, Metal Gear's getting locked.

lrrose Since: Jul, 2009
#190885: Nov 8th 2019 at 3:53:40 PM

Is there precedent for that? I think that the fact that she is willing to make amends in one ending is disqualifying.

For context, here's her epilogue if she surrenders:

    Sophia epilogue 
It was widely suspected that Sophia Akande was the true power behind Chairman Rockwell. However, after the riots on Tartarus, she was never again seen in the colony. Various theories circulated as to her fate. Some believed she boarded an interstellar ship capable of journeying to a distant colony. Others believe she died trying to escape Tartarus. Some few suggest she fled to Monarch, where she continued to live among a small band of loyalists.

There is another theory, which suggests that Sophia's encounter with you changed her, and she deliberately retreated from public view. However, she continued supporting the colony in secret. When Dr. Welles began reviving the Hope's colonists, he found himself with a sudden windfall of additional supplies and resources, courtesy of an anonymous donor.If Welles knew who his supplier was, he never told a soul.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#190886: Nov 8th 2019 at 3:57:31 PM

So she may have had a Heel–Face Turn in one ending? I'm thinking she could still count, but I wanna know what others think.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#190887: Nov 8th 2019 at 3:58:35 PM

Yeah, if she does a Heel–Face Turn in one ending, and her character is consistent throughout all the endings, then she has a small amount of good inside her- and so does not count.

If her character is not consistent through the endings- then we still cannot count her, as candidates must be consistently portrayed as pure evil (the only exceptions being Alternate Continuity and Depending on the Writer).

At least, that is how I understand it. So as much as I love female CMs, I will have to give a [tdown] to Sophia.

Edited by MasterN on Nov 8th 2019 at 5:03:17 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#190888: Nov 8th 2019 at 4:02:19 PM

Late but enthusiastic yes to Commander Judd. The head honcho of Gilead showed his face at least, delightful.

AdamDos123 Since: Nov, 2019
#190889: Nov 8th 2019 at 4:03:26 PM
Thumped: This post was thumped by moderation to preserve the dignity of the author.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#190890: Nov 8th 2019 at 4:09:18 PM

@ACW: You know we've down voted characters from several works with multiple paths who showed a redeeming quality in one path let alone a redemption.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#190891: Nov 8th 2019 at 4:09:28 PM

[up][up] No need to edit your post, Fan.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Nov 8th 2019 at 10:09:38 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#190892: Nov 8th 2019 at 4:10:29 PM

[up][up][up]Fan we know it's you. Its kinda obvious.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
AdamDos123 Since: Nov, 2019
#190893: Nov 8th 2019 at 4:11:06 PM
Thumped: This post was thumped by moderation to preserve the dignity of the author.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#190894: Nov 8th 2019 at 4:12:40 PM

Well I can see things are happening here..

Mew1996 Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#190895: Nov 8th 2019 at 4:33:14 PM

Let's see if after all this failures trying something different will work.

What is the work

[Complete] Everyone has a dark side, sleeping within us all. In the aftermath of Harry Potter's fifth year, Harry's awakes. Powerful and ruthless, nothing will stand in its way... not even Harry himself.

Dark Rage is a Literature/Harry Potter Fanfic of Drama/Horror that was published in: Sep 19, 2004. It's Complete.

Who is Thanatos

Thanatos, early on kwnown as Dark Harry is the the Big Bad of the story and Harry's Heartless, known in-universe as an "eidoleon".

He is heavily based of Yu-Gi-Oh! villains, particulary Yami Marik and Yami Bakura, with the worst, most Nightmare Fuel traits of Season 0 Yami. He's also explicitly an Expy of Angelus, according to the author. Like them he starts off as Superpowered Evil Side however, during the second half of the story onwards, he breaks off and becomes an Enemy Without.

What does he do?

Okay, let's get ready for this.

During the first act he acts like and is confused by the readers to be a '90s Anti-Hero, delivering Pay Evil Into Evil brutal tortures (Mind Rape, mostly) and executions to the people who have harmed Harry one by one. Until we get to Snape's turn, that is.

After being caught redhanded while he was in the middle of torturing Snape by a group consisting of Mcgonagall, Dumbledore, Tonks, Ron and Ginny pulling a Big Damn Heroes, he begins to show his True Colors by immediately trying to kill them, mocking them about trying to save Harry.

After being defeated he gets interrogated, where he gleefully confesses to have killed all the dissapeared people plus the dead Death Eaters, and ate the souls of the former. As he is being sealed, he casually promises to kill everyone horribly.

When he escapes thanks to him manipulating Harry, he decides to celebrate by going on a killing spree trough the Griffindor's Common Room he happened to be in, attempting to devour a random first year and his alter ego's friends, stopped again by Dumbledore and the teachers, he flees the scene, promising to kill Ginny last, without any of her brothers to protect her.

Returning that very night for the purpose of torturing Ginny, he tries to Mind Rape her with nightmares, failing only beause Harry saved her, weakening him in the process.

In order to restore his strenght from this, he powers himself by going on a killing spree in a muggle neighborghood eating the souls of everyone he finds and it's made clear to Harry that if he isn't stopped, he'll destroy everyone on Earth.

While spying on Dumledore talking with Abeforth abot a way to get rid of him, he tortures Harry for no real reason.

After waiting for Abeforth to be alone, he assaults him in his pub-house and subjects him to Cold-Blooded Torture to "make a symphony of screams", as his Mind Probe powers had given him the info right at the start.

After finishing Abeforth he exorcises Harry from the world in process that's so painful it's compared to Calvary before burning down the house and taunting Dumbledore about the fates of Harry and his brother.

After that, his very next scene shows him breaking into Hogwarts to randomly murder Hermione (And Madam Pince, the librarian) by by playing a murderous game of tag. (Acording to the author he feared Hermione would find a way to beat him)

At the heroine's funeral, he has the gall to Speak Ill of the Dead girl, before trying to kill them all, including a returned Harry, whom he tries to devour.

Driven to a rage when he finds out about the death of his friend, and knowing his Omnicidal Maniac level threat, Harry decides to make a deal with Voldemort in order to get rid of him.

Interrupting this plan Thanatos arrives and murders Voldemort before starting to torture Harry, with said torture's final touch being driving Ginny utterly mad with a Mind Rape sphere.

His next victim would be Dumbledore, whose dead gives Harry an Heroic Second Wind.

During the following Final Battle, Thanatos declares his intention to bury Harry inside him in order to continue killing until there's nothing left.

Ufff.

Mitigating Qualities?

No, not even lack of agency, because Harry, despite being a Made of Good Humanoid Abomination, can still be utterly ruthless and malicious and hate as passionately as he loves, ergo, by that logic, Thanatos is capable of love too but is utterly devoid of it, Harry isn't human either in this story, but the same breed of Humanoid Abomination that Thanatos and he can go against his nature just fine, despite Thanatos's belief of the contrary. He's also played dead serious with no comedic or redeeming qualities and after the first third of the story he stops acting as Harry's darker half and becomes a [[Franchise/Blazblue Terumi-like]] villain.

Heinousness standard

Lord Voldemort, himself the worst CM in canon, admits that Thanatos is eviler than him. That alone makes him qualify, but a lot of emphasis is also made by the narration to exalt how purely evil Thanatos is.

Final Thoughts Keeper, definitely. [tup][tup][tup]

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#190896: Nov 8th 2019 at 4:34:58 PM

I'll give a tentative [tup] to the Censor. Shame he killed him, would have been more fitting not to.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#190897: Nov 8th 2019 at 4:34:59 PM

I don't think Sophia should go up. To me, a character must be irredeemable in every part of the game regardless of player choice, kind of like how we don't let player characters count if there is an option that gives them as redeeming quality.

Also on the Hitman candidate, do we see the victims at all, or is it all offscreen?

finalsurvivor1 Since: Jan, 2012
#190898: Nov 8th 2019 at 4:38:16 PM

Yeah, if a game has multiple endings, a candidate needs to count in all of them, or at least count in one and not have another route disqualify them.

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#190899: Nov 8th 2019 at 4:39:13 PM

Voldemort claiming that Thanatos is eviler than him isn't an automatic pass. Does this Voldemort share the same crimes as his canon counterpart? Such as igniting a magical Civil War in the past? Also, judging by your EP, I'm worried that his genocidal intentions might be Fridge Horror.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Nov 8th 2019 at 10:40:36 AM

Berrenta MOD Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#190900: Nov 8th 2019 at 4:40:41 PM

The sock has been escorted out.


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