During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
And now my next Bryan Smith, from Bloodrush.
David is a guy with a nice enough life...he's got a great girlfriend, a job, things are nice...and then he's attacked by a mysterious woman and wakes up quite thirsty. So for a short novella, let's talk his sire, Narcissa Vulpes.
Who is Narcissa?
A vicious, seductive, evil vampire and murderer, Narcissa decides David will make a nice little plaything and toy, turning him on a lark...now, Narcissa has a standing policy to her toys: keep them around and if they try to leave her, they die. She cautions him she's killed vampires before and he's no match for her whatsoever. To induct him, Narcissa promptly has David kill several people, while engaging in murder herself. Not sugarcoating it? Narcissa is a sadistic thrill killer, violently murdering people wherever she finds them, with plenty of torture both physical and psychological first. Wanting David to become as savage as her, Narcissa goes on a killing spree, encouraging him to murder everyone in their path, with David losing his humanity more in the process.
However, Narcissa wants David to belong to her and only her until she's done, with plans to butcher his girlfriend Janine, and she wants him to do it. To warm up, Narcissa pays a visit to a diner she visited a few decades back, where she massacred everyone inside (except a waitress, who she forced to slit the throat of another man there to survive). Same waitress is still there, and Narcissa gleefully tears the plce apart, killing everyone inside before leaving with David. Taking him to Janine's, she gets the vampire equivalent of a hangover and kills Janine's family, leaving her tied up for David and leaving a note for him to bring him Janine's head while she goes to sleep it off...David? Decides to turn Janine, being too in love with her to murder her.
The book ends with him and Janine going on the run, with David knowing they can't stop Narcissa in a straight fight and hoping they can stay ahead of her, or that she'll just decide to let thme go, as unlikely as it is, but believing sooner or later a confrontation is inevitable. (Yeah, Bryan Smith is not good at this all the time.)
Mitigating Qualities?
What do you think? She makes it clear David is a plaything she'll dispose of if he chooses to be defiant or troublesome, and beyond that she's a sadistic serial killer who murders tons of people for nothing but kicks and snacks.
Conclusion?
And ayes.
Yes indeed to the last candidate.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Barkov, Kingsley, Judd, Narcissa
The tropes in question are You Monster! and The Sociopath, how do they not denote pure evil out of every pore, and in case that's the reason for it, know that Amadeus did pass the test for being a CM.
You Monster! is used when someone else calls out X on his actions but it doesn't mean that he is pure evil.
A sociopath is not always violent or evil, and a few cases of CMs aren't sociopaths, such as Junko Enoshima.
Take a look at the approved quotes so that you may see what is required for an appropriate CM quote.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Nov 8th 2019 at 8:41:55 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)Last one for now...kicking off a little collab between ACW, Mir and I:
What's the work?
In Death is a series of ungodly popular supermarket novels by JD Robb, pen name for Nora Roberts, set in the far future of 2058 when the series begins. Eve Dallas is a police lieutenant working in New York and who handles murders on a strangely constant basis. Eve meets the handsome gajillionaire Roarke and soon marries him, fighting crime with nothing but all that a capable heroine requires: her wits, her heart, a man with the physique of a Greek statue who owns more money than god and limitless connections and most importantly? her street smarts. Now, in the novel New York to Dallas a pair surfaces from Eve's history, leading to one of the worst men she's ever taken down.
So basically, it's Fifty Shades of Gray meets Criminal Minds with a Blade Runner or Strange Days aesthetic. Let's talk Isaac McQueen
Who is Isaac?
A pedophile arrested by Eve years ago, Isaac is a Serial Rapist of children, who amassed dozens of victims. Trained in con jobs by his mother, who was also his lover, Isaac later murdered her and developed a pattern of recruiting older women as lovers, using them to procure 'bad girls' for him, whereupon he would rape them, murder and torture those in his way, and kill the girls or leave them alive to live with the pain. Playing as a model prisoner in Rikers, Isaac murders his medic and escapes, killing several others in the process. And he has a massive chip on his shoulder about Eve, wanting to rape and murder her in the process, along with his current partner for the job: Eve's mother, going by the alias Sylvia, who believes Isaac loves her.
Now, Isaac? His MO is to kidnap the girls, hold them hostage, rape and torture them and murder them or leave. After escaping prison, he held a couple hostage, repeatedly raped the woman and branded her with a tattoo to denote her as a permanent trophy of his. Targeting an old victim of his, he takes her hostage with a little girl named Darlie. Over the course of the next days, he rapes Darlie, making her pretend to be Eve so he can role play it, gloating all the while and sparing them just as a message to Eve. When Sylvia has outlived her usefulness, Isaac slits her throat and dumps her in the river like he has his other victims.
Tracking Eve, he ambushes her, planning to rape and murder her, and her cat for good measure. Eve however, triggered badly by memories of her father (who raped her as a child), fights bakck and beats Isaac down, Roarke arriving in time to stop her from murdering him. Isaac is given over to the authorities and dragged off to prison where he will spend the rest of his life.
Until Roberts decides to bring him back for a sequel, which is gonna be pending. She knows it, we know it, who is she fooling?
Mitigating Qualities?
hooookay, In Death...the standard is huge and y'know what? We're cutting the listed CM's. Nowhere near bad enough. Isaac is well over the baseline though. One of the highest rape counts in the show, serial murder, torturer and so forth. While he was sexually abused by his mother, he's a pedophile in spite of this. It doesn't bother him or inform his actions and sadism. All it's given him is a fondness for older women as partners who he seduces, strings along and murders when he's through with them. So yeah, nada.
conclusion?
And so we have a winner.
And a yes to Isaac. Even if not the highest death count (I've heard anywhere from 11 to 17), his being a pedophile pushes him over the edge into easy keep.
And yeah, the two current keepers are CLEARLY not bad enough. Should I just file that cut now?
EDIT: Also, I haven't read that book, but going by the EP, Isaac seems like the opposite of non-keeper John Blue. Isaac was a pedophile regardless of his mother abusing him; John basically became a rapist and killer BECAUSE of his mother abusing him.
EDIT 2: For the curious, Lighty has possibly 2 more; Mir has one definite, possibly another one (Lighty, you looked into Willow yet?), and 2 he still needs to read; I possibly got 3 more I still need to read.
Edited by ACW on Nov 8th 2019 at 2:55:23 PM
Sure to Isaac.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)

Dear Lightysnake, They also fit here quite well.