During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
@ACW: Have all the Transformers entries have been decided on and do they have good writeups? If so, the page can probably be locked.
Does anyone object if I add these
to the Anime and Manga Sandbox?
I also think Reverse Flash from Justice League The Flashpoint Paradox might count, sure he was not responsible for ruining the world, Flash himself was unwittingly responsible for that, but Reverse Flash actively trying to stop Flash from repairing the damage and Reverse Flash did try to blow up a couple of square blocks of Central City. Reverse Flash seemed to welcome the end of the world if it results in Flash's humiliation and death.
The only question is, is Reverse Flash overshadowed by other characters in that movie in terms of evil? Flashpoint Wonder Woman and Aquaman are both pretty bad, starting a war with each other that resulted in the deaths of villains. Flashpoint Wonder Woman beheaded Aquaman's wife and killed a child in the movie. Aquaman invented a super weapon and used it to destroy England in the movie's climax. Neither of those are complete monsters, because they care about their own people. So is Reverse Flash overshadowed by the Flashpoint versions of Aquaman and Wonder Woman?
edited 13th Nov '13 2:59:27 PM by TheOverlord
@Overlord
I don't know how others feel, but my take on Reverse-Flash is this—by trying to prevent Barry from undoing the damage he's responsible for keeping the world in the state it is in, which puts all the crimes that FP!Wonder Woman and FP!Aquaman commit on his head. I'm also inclined to cut WW and AM some slack as they were at war. Reverse-Flash doesn't have that excuse going for him.
edited 13th Nov '13 3:47:29 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
Feel free to post Kristoph to the edit request thread. I'm looking into the When They Cry entries
Okay, a few more entries for the Anime/Manga Sandbox:
- Shira from Blade of the Immortal
- Amshel Goldsmith from Blood+
- The manga version of Hatagai from Bokurano
Sound good?
Okay, then I will vote yes on Animated Reverse Flash.
Yeah regarding the Transformer page, I still think Lockdown from Transformers Animated should be rewritten to remove any mention of Animated Megatron, because he has nothing to do with Lockdown's potential status as a CM.
Also is the Fallen from Transformers:Revenge Of The Fallen really a CM or just a Generic Doomsday Villain ?
edited 13th Nov '13 5:32:03 PM by TheOverlord
The version from the film is a Generic Doomsday Villain, but last I checked he isn't listed on his own, is he? The character's a multiversal singularity. Every version of him across the multiverse is the same character, and all their crimes go together.
edited 13th Nov '13 5:30:39 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
The film version has its own entry though:
From the Transformers live action movies: The Fallen from Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen. At least from the perspective of the movie, he didn't have to destroy a populated solar system (which others Primes had a law against) and could've just continued using uninhabited solar systems along with the other Primes. He chooses to destroy Earth's system, because he thinks Transformers to be superior to all other forms of life and so holds the law forbidding destroying planets with life in utter contempt. He started the civil war that destroyed Cybertron and cost billions of lives and he feels no remorse about it.
Considering the more impressive comic book version is already listed, I say cut the film version and just keep the comic book version. In theory he is a multiversal singularity, but in practice he just isn't a CM in that film and I wouldn't lend him evil deeds from other continuities in that film. Really movie Fallen doesn't seem like the same character as comic book Fallen, Movie Fallen barely did anything, comic book Fallen is seems far more proactive.
edited 13th Nov '13 5:40:42 PM by TheOverlord
- Black Butler:
- Angela Blanc/Ash Landers in the latter half in the first season, while they to present themselves as well-intentioned, it's very obvious that both are extremely perverse, Angela being a dominatrix going after everything that can move including a transforming dog, fusing Ciel's parent's together as an abomination they'd later use to try and murder him, toss their loyal doll minion like trash and faithfully turning little girls into dolls, trying kill the cultists who had been loyal to them once they served their purpose, manipulating the queen into planning a world war, only to leave her to die and sacrificing the population of London to create a barrier bridge against demons and empowering themselves. No wonder Sebastian calls them fallen.
- Lord Trancy from episode 8 of season 2. He has a bunch of boys captured and made into his sex slaves right up until he dies of old age. He even gets rid of those that are "broken", calls the boys "dolls", and beats them. He's the reason why Jim Macken/Alois Trancy (the Sole Survivor among those poor boys) is...the way he is.
I know it was decided to keep Ash, but what about Lord Trancy?
- Complete Monster: The Doctor is more twisted than Creed and doesn't have the excuse of being clearly insane. Pick one of his experiments at random, just one of them, and you'll likely agree that it's enough to warrant the most cruel and unusual death available. He even tells Eve at one point while trying to vivisect her that empathy is a truly pointless emotion.
Doesn't explain any of his crimes.
- Complete Monster: There are a lot of douchey characters in this series, including our protagonists. However, all of them have at least some redeeming traits. All of them, except Nasubi. This guy's goal was to get his hands on Baby Beel, not because he found the kid cute, mind you, but because he intended to "use him" (and use him and use him and use him) as fuel for his Spell Master abilities. It's been heavily implied that this would drain Beel's strength, meaning Nasubi essentially saw him as a depletable energy source.
Is this heinous?
Beverly Hills Cop III, one of Eddie Murphy more serious movies (compared to his recent stuff).
- Complete Monster: Ellis DeWald in part III is the most despicable villain in the Beverly Hills trilogy. While the villains of the previous films were simply Magnicifent Bastards who still had standards, he has no empathy whatsoever.
- His crime? He guns down a chop shop with some corrupt mechanics (who were not even dangerous) simply for not being useful no more (and also being witness).
- DeWald finally kicks the dog by shooting the much beloved Uncle Dave (don't worry, he survives) and frames Axel for the crime.
I might cut this.
edited 13th Nov '13 8:34:32 PM by despoa
Nasubi in Beelzebub was the first opponent in the arc he was in, I believe. He was a dick, but not an outstanding one all things considered. He was overshadowed later. Plus it looks like he's teaming up with the good guys now, and people who do that in this series tend to stay good. Plus comedy series. Easy cut.

edited 13th Nov '13 1:25:19 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar