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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#189251: Oct 27th 2019 at 1:07:01 AM

@Bobg

No one's continuing the Big MLP debate, I just corrected klavice on something.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#189253: Oct 27th 2019 at 1:38:36 AM

ACW, will the following quote work?

"They knew! They didn't play at being wicked. They worshipped the devil and he taught them delights that you will never know! Of punishment: inflicting and receiving it. Of torture. And death. Yes, of death and of pleasures beyond the grave. Something you could not even comprehend! But I know."

Count Karnstein embraces his sadistic heritage, Twins of Evil

Edited by SkyCat32 on Oct 27th 2019 at 4:41:22 AM

MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
V
#189254: Oct 27th 2019 at 2:15:38 AM

Sup everybody.

It's been months and months since I posted on this forum, and therefore I just want to make it clear that I am still going to bring up the candidates from the works I've chosen to bring up in the discussion dates even if I'm not active right now.

If anyone in this thread is watching Mr. Robot season four, I just want to say that I'll probably wait until the season is complete before doing an EP due to the amount of twists every episode has.

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#189255: Oct 27th 2019 at 2:24:58 AM
Servbot Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#189256: Oct 27th 2019 at 2:45:49 AM

Sorry for this late reply to the Honkai Impact post (The topic moves fast), but I just wanted to clear a few things up

Alright, as for the another site argument, I really really tried my best to paraphrase when it comes to making EP and adding some of my own thoughts of my own and I'll admit the EP itself? Was done in a rushed condition while waiting for my friend to proofread it. I guess? Most of the information of Erosion can be traced back on Honkai Impact's video game prequel, Gun Girls Day Z (The game was released around 2014. 3 years before HI 3 was released), in which my friend who proofreaded my EP also played the game.

Yeah, Honkai Impact 3rd's nature as an Alternate Universe Spin-Off of Gun Girls DayZ makes getting into the lore a lot trickier than normal for newcomers. It's one of the reasons why Honkai Impact fans actually suggest NOT checking fan wikis for accurate lore info, since many combine stuff from both universes even when they're no longer canon to each other and contradict one other.

Rule of thumb for Honkai Impact supplementary materials is that, if it's not in the official Chinese site, it's not canon to Honkai Impact.

miHoYo's Global team has also gone overdrive in the past months and localized nearly every currently released volume (Sakura's backstory and a few comics set in the Previous era are the only lore related ones still untranslated). They're publishing them on their official Mangadex page mostly chronologically, which is great for lore fans.

Also, I have a feeling that someone brought the argument both Higo and Erosion are split personality with each other. This one? Tricky to explain but I guess you could argue by bringing up the relationship on both Mei and Herrscher of the Thunder. That and how in Sakura Samsara, the Erosion managed to split into different entity when expelled from Higokumaru.

While it's true that you could argue the 12th Herrscher as a Split Personality from Higo, we would then enter the problem of Agency with the Herrschers. Namely that, as explained by Mei's Herrscher Split Personality in the AE Invasion manga, Herrschers are driven by the Will of the Honkai/God to purge all humanity.

Plus, as I mentioned, the Herrscher would still have also been driven by how cruelly and violently Higo died. This is further emphasized in Chapter 12 of the game, where Seele mentions feeling "a surge of unbelievable fury... and sadness" when she was taken over when the Herrscher awakened, i.e., Higo/Previous Era Rin's emotions when the soldiers killed her

Gun Girls DayZ's 12th Herrscher may have been an entity that wants to create a Plague Kingdom or some such (Haven't played GGZ, so I couldn't say), but Honkai Impact 3rd's 12th Herrscher is essentially The Virus version of a Vengeful Ghost.

Also, the manga continuity is rather tricky so I don't blame you questioning her considered a friend of mine also said that the part where she still got sealed even after accepting Kallen's death, there's this scene on HI 3 official manga on how she taunts about Theresa's unconcious body and the manga was set after well? Erosion getting sealed. Believe it or not, I was also hesitant as well on this part until my friend convince me regarding that Erosion scene.

Err... kinda confused with the "even after accepting Kallen's death" statement since Hellmaru/12th Herrscher/Higo's main experience with Kallen was as the Kaslana that keeps on stopping her.

But the scene with the unconscious Theresa happens before the final time the Herrscher was sealed. In fact, it's the reason why Hellmaru managed to get into Theresa's body in the first place. Sakura finds Theresa's unconscious body and sacrifices their Herrscher core to save Theresa, much to Hellmaru's horror. However, it also had the side effect of bringing Hellmaru and Sakura into Theresa, which then led to the Gratiture Arc.

So yeah, the scene with Theresa managing to stop the Herrscher by showing it forgiveness and compassion was how the Herrscher's story ended in the manga, with her backstory giving a little epilogue on how realizing the folly of its hatred allowed the Box to form the 12th Divine Key.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#189257: Oct 27th 2019 at 3:09:34 AM

[tup] Frieza, Professor, Orloff, Hawkins, Benno, Maggie, Bierko and Brai

[tdown] Chrysalis and Sombra

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#189258: Oct 27th 2019 at 3:15:08 AM

Decided to make a slight rewrite for Bastion from X-Men: Destiny video game, to shorten it and delete some parts, which not only are making entry look clunky, it also talks more about Luis Reyes than about Bastion.

So here is the rewrite:

X-Men: Destiny: Bastion is an AI, created to defend humanity against mutants, who grew beyond his programming and became a threat to all population on Earth. Seemingly killed in battle with the X-Men, Bastion survives by uploading his program into an orbiting satellite. Making contact with Luis Reyes, the head of the Mutant Response Division, Bastion creates a plan to take over the world by turning everyone into his mindless slaves. Directing Reyes to obtains a sample of Xavier's DNA and uses it to replicate Xavier's Psychic Powers, so that he can take control over the MRD, U-Men and the Purifiers, Bastion has him kidnap mutants and subject them to dangerous and potentially lethal expedients, in order to harvest more mutant powers. Bastion then orders Reyes to cause further tension between humans and mutants in San Francisco by launching an attack on the rally, which was supposed to promote peace between humans and mutants, and framing Magneto for it.

Here is how original looks:

X-Men: Destiny: Bastion is a robot who was created to defend humanity against mutants, but grew beyond his programming and became a threat to all of humanity. Bastion is seemingly killed in a battle that also leaves Professor Xavier dead, but survives, uploading his program into an orbiting satellite. Bastion makes contact with Luis Reyes, the head of the Mutant Response Division, and devises a plan to Take Over the World. Reyes obtains a sample of Xavier's DNA and uses it to replicate Xavier's Psychic Powers. With these new powers and under Bastion's direction, Reyes takes controls of the MRD, U-Men and the Purifiers. Bastion and Reyes uses these groups to kidnap mutants and subject them to dangerous and potentially lethal expedients, in order to harvest more mutant powers for their personal uses. Bastion and Reyes also cause further tension between humans and mutants in San Francisco. Reyes holds a rally to promote peace between humans and mutants, but also launches an attack on this rally (which kills the mayor and several civilians) and frames Magneto for it. Bastion also kills Pixie, one of the youngest X-Men, and frames Cyclops for it, just to increase tensions between the X-Men and the Brotherhood. Bastion's ultimate plan to use a combination of Xavier's powers and his own Technopathy to take control of the world's technology and transform all of humanity into his mindless slaves. Reyes thinks Bastion respects him and sees him as an equal, but Bastion takes over his mind when he no longer needs him.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#189259: Oct 27th 2019 at 3:26:09 AM

That quote for Hammer Horror may work.

I'd not be opposed to cutting Rashay.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#189260: Oct 27th 2019 at 3:31:23 AM

Found this on Maleficent YMMV for The Scrappy

"Stefan has few fans and is sometimes called the worst aspect of the movie as a whole. Aside from his abrupt change from a good kid with bad influences to a Complete Monster, Sharlto Copley's unsubtle performance was downright unpleasant for most audiences."

Its been a long time sense I saw the movie, but aside from what he did to Maleficent....does he really do anything that heinous?

I also recall him being Geniunly screwed up in the head

Edited by Kylotrope on Oct 27th 2019 at 3:33:35 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#189261: Oct 27th 2019 at 4:00:10 AM

Potholed:

Edited by ACW on Oct 27th 2019 at 7:00:32 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#189262: Oct 27th 2019 at 4:41:53 AM

[tup] to Vladmir, Brai, Hawkins, and the Hammer Horror quote

Cut Ralshey

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#189263: Oct 27th 2019 at 4:47:18 AM

[tup] to Benno, Bierko, Brai and Hawkins. Change to [tdown] on Chrysalis.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
UltimateDemonBeast65 Since: Feb, 2018
#189265: Oct 27th 2019 at 5:39:00 AM

Regarding Norman Osborn and Carnage, are we going to expand upon their entry given the events of Amazing Spider-Man: Red Goblin and Absolute Carnage?

Absolute Carnage is still going on but I mean when that’s over, but the Red Goblin storyline is done and shouldn’t we at least list some of his actions in that storyline in his entry?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#189266: Oct 27th 2019 at 5:41:33 AM

I guess. What did they do of note?

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#189267: Oct 27th 2019 at 5:42:17 AM

Yes to Hawkins.

And Klavice, no offense, but I'm not sure if you understand how the heinous standard or MB works. An MB isn't required to have redeeming qualities to qualify. And while Chrysalis doesn't count, being less heinous than a certain character (in this case Cosmos) isn't the same as failing baseline. Multiple candidates can count for CM even if one's more heinous than the others.

AlmightyKingPrawn I can chase the wind, I can race the rain from Down at Fraggle Rock *clap clap* Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
I can chase the wind, I can race the rain
#189268: Oct 27th 2019 at 5:47:08 AM

[tup] Brai and Hawkins

She/her. Profile pic is by Richard Michael Gomez @StarmansArt. Please watch Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock. https://youtu.be/Vm92JNgPbqk
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#189269: Oct 27th 2019 at 6:25:08 AM

@Delphine: I didn't think for a moment Hopkins was a joke name, don't worry, that was not directed at you.

Slice that pothole from Maleficent, natch. And okay, Honkai...yeah, I admit I'm confused. Is this a game with a lot of supplementary stuff? Can we explain for someone who has no idea what this franchise is?

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#189270: Oct 27th 2019 at 6:28:53 AM

Could someone else kindly remove the Maleficent pothole? I'm still suspended from editing.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#189271: Oct 27th 2019 at 6:34:08 AM

Well, one thing I HAVE found out, is the other Honkai dude, the Overseer, is only in the supplemental manga comics.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#189272: Oct 27th 2019 at 6:45:13 AM

Yes... The game is filled with a lot of supplementary stuffs like mangas or OV As to explain most of the backstory of the characters especially the Herrscher's in general. Sure, there are several stories that are in game only but guys like Overseer are from supplementary stuffs in general.

And thus, I'm leaving.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#189273: Oct 27th 2019 at 6:48:09 AM

Yes to Brai and Hawkins. Abstaining on Bierko, but leaning no, due to how jacked-up the 24 standard seems to be.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#189275: Oct 27th 2019 at 6:50:16 AM

You shouldn't leave over that. Just don't rush EPs like that, or don't entirely depend on what a friend's words claimed. You need to either play the game yourself or watch the gameplays.


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