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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#189001: Oct 26th 2019 at 8:25:52 AM

Found another unapproved Complete Monster entry, this time on the Characters subpage for Dragged Across Concrete. Now, the film already has an approved CM for Lorentz Vogelman. In fact, there's also a Complete Monster entry for him on the character page too. I cut both entries. Here's the one that was for the unnamed robbers:

Edited by chasemaddigan on Oct 26th 2019 at 11:27:35 AM

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#189002: Oct 26th 2019 at 8:30:54 AM

[up] Cut that. Only Vogelmann counts. They're just following his orders.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#189003: Oct 26th 2019 at 8:40:51 AM

[up][up] That entry doesn’t even describe what the robbers did. Burn it.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#189004: Oct 26th 2019 at 9:08:33 AM

Agreed.

Also, MGD, you going to write up the Krampus Killer and the others? Its been a while now.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#189005: Oct 26th 2019 at 9:35:56 AM

Yes to Zarkon, Morviak, Geb, Phryne, Betruger, Ravannavar, Ehitorujue, Dismemberer and Cravette.

No to Sombra. No to Slag, but good write up.

I will abstain on Chrysalis, I want to hear why she was rejected in the first place and if anything has changed since then. I still think something like She-Ra (another show aimed girls) would be more able to have a monster then MLP would, but I am not an MLP fan, so I do not want to seem judgemental.

Regarding Marvel video games, perhaps we should look into some other games to increase the page. For example, Marvel Heroes was an MMO that featured many of Marvel's staple of monsters, like William Stryker. Doom is the main villain and most of the rest of the villains are his pawns, but I heard Stryker is one of the serious villains in the game, despite being Doom's pawn, has a ton of nasty crimes on his head, trying to commit genocide against mutants in NYC, even trying to burn one alive. The only problem is Disney shut down this MMO in 2017 and the only way to see it is Youtube and I am not sure much video I would have to watch to understand the heinous standard for this game.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#189006: Oct 26th 2019 at 9:38:08 AM

Kind of leaning towards a slight yes for Chrysalis' case due to the baby draining and threatening mutilation on a child.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#189007: Oct 26th 2019 at 9:40:38 AM

[tup] to Crystalis. It's interesting to see that Tirek was given far more development and shown to have actual virtues.

Very late [tup] to Havik and Reiko, to note. Might not matter, mind you.

If I don't mention a character, effectively I'm abstaining/not voting. I'm not sure on Sombra cause I can't remember him like I remember Crystalis, and she is just an awful person(enough that I consider her strong enough for a CM status). The factor of "anyone can be redeemed" has proven impossible for her whereas Tirek and Cozy Glow(as noted in the Frenemies bit) actually show they have some potential good in them. It's why I felt it was a good idea to wait on Tirek to see if he would be redeemed later(he isn't necessarily redeemed so much as shows qualities that are disqualifying. Not major actions that make him less of a bad guy, if you will).

Edited by Irene on Oct 26th 2019 at 12:14:29 PM

Shadow?
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#189008: Oct 26th 2019 at 10:22:43 AM

[tup] Queen Chrystina.

So, is anyone else gonna weigh in on Elfen?

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#189009: Oct 26th 2019 at 10:31:45 AM

Got a new EP for the thread. This one being a fanfic’s interpretation of a certain Dragon Ball candidate.

What’s the work?

In Pursuit of Vengeance is a Dragon Ball Z fanfic that bases itself around the idea of Raditz managing to get Goku to come with him via a different approach. (Though there’s still several differences from canon, such as Vegeta, Nappa and Raditz, already knowing that Frieza destroyed the saiyan’s planet, King Yemma being a woman known as Queen Enmu, and there being two King Kais, the North Kai like in canon, and the South Kai).

Instead of kidnapping Gohan to blackmail Goku, Raditz says that if Goku doesn’t come with him, he’ll kill all his friends right then and there. Goku reluctantly agrees, only for Raditz to kill all of Goku’s friends and wipe the Earth of all inhabitants anyway as he forces Goku into a space pod sent to one of the space bases owned by Frieza. Furious at this, Goku intends to get revenge on Raditz. And our candidate is more than willing to use Goku’s anger to his advantage.

Who is he? What does he do?

Frieza is the Big Bad of the majority of the fanfic (until 4/5th through the story. Then Vegeta, and very briefly later on, Dr Gero takes over.) Like in canon, Frieza is the tyrannical head of the Galactic Frieza Army, an organization that wipes out all life from planets, then sells the planets to the highest bidder, and previously wiped out almost all of the loyal saiyans in fear of being overthrown by them. Aware that Vegeta, Nappa, and Raditz intend to rebel against him in time, Frieza intends to take advantage of Goku to tear down the rebellion before it starts after Goku asks Frieza to train him. Frieza agrees to train Goku if he helps Dodoria out on a mission, and soon after, nearly kills Goku for speaking out of turn. (He lets Goku live and has him heal up in a rejuvenation pod)

Frieza and Dodoria trick Goku into purging a race known as the Spettians (aliens made out of ice) by lying to him about the race being brutal and dangerous savages, when in truth, they’re weaklings who attack invaders out of fear. When Goku finds out about this and confronts Frieza, Frieza once again nearly kills Goku before telling him that their training will begin after he heals up. He also has Zarbon torture Raditz after Raditz went to Earth to pick up Goku without telling Frieza.

Frieza begins training Goku, going out of his way to try and break Goku’s spirit (though it doesn’t work). After Goku gained enough power to far surpass Raditz (Goku casually shows a power level of 2,300, but in truth, his power level goes to a maximum of 70,000 by this point) Frieza later orders him to purge a planet known as Raiss. Goku refuses, and when Frieza threatens to kill him, Goku says that Frieza’s bluffing as Goku’s too valuable for Frieza to kill. Frieza acknowledges it as true, so instead to punish Goku, Frieza kills a talented scientist of his, Mengo who Goku was growing a bond with.

Later on when a healed up Raditz is called by Frieza, Goku returns from Planet Raiss. Frieza goads the two into fighting to the death (Goku at first didn’t see the point of killing Raditz as he was too weak to be of harm, but Raditz, feeling threatened by this, and believing Goku fully sided with Frieza over the saiyans, decided to make the first strike). Goku defeats and kills Raditz with little effort, even when Raditz goes Great Ape. The next day, after Vegeta and Nappa arrive, Frieza takes the spaceship to Planet Raiss, revealing that Goku didn’t purge the species like ordered to, and tried to hide it. Frieza then makes Goku watch as he destroys the planet in front of him. Frieza then tells Goku that the more he disobeys, the more innocent people Frieza will slaughter just to punish Goku, rubbing it in that it’s Goku’s fault.

After several months of Vegeta, Nappa, and a very reluctant Goku going on purges for Frieza (usually Goku doesn’t do any purging himself, but doesn’t stop Vegeta or Nappa from killing) Vegeta has their space pods sent to Planet Namek underneath Frieza’s nose as at this point in the story, Vegeta knows about the Namekian Dragon Balls, but Frieza doesn't. After Frieza finds out about the saiyans going behind his back in an attempt to betray him, Frieza kills a random minion who was about to give a report to release stress before ordering the Ginyu Force to kill Nappa, and bring Goku and Vegeta to him. He also tells the Ginyu Force to purge all the residents of whatever planet the Saiyans went to for ‘harboring traitors’ despite the Namekians having no real say in the Saiyans going there. He also intends for the Ginyu Force to kill Zarbon and Dodoria for their failures in keeping an eye on the Saiyans.

After the Ginyu Force are killed by Goku and Vegeta (Vegeta killed Guldo and hospitalized Recoome, while Goku gets healed up after losing to Ginyu, resulting in the Zenkai boosted Goku killing Burter, Jeice, the recovering Recoome, and Ginyu after he accidentally switched bodies with Dodoria) Frieza calls Ginyu’s scouter (and as Ginyu switched bodies with Dodoria, inadvertently calling Dodoria, who started to make his Heel–Face Turn). Frieza gives the Ginyu Force two weeks to bring Goku and Vegeta to him (Nappa was already killed by Recoome) so that Frieza can make them suffer long, agonizing deaths, and if they fail, the Ginyu Force will be killed. Frieza also regularly has his soldiers attempt to purge Earth as he sends men to try and find Goku and Vegeta’s whereabouts when the Ginyu Force fail to respond to him. (Goku used the Namekian Dragon Balls to revive Kami, restoring the Earth Dragon Balls, and Goku used those to revive everybody on Earth killed by Raditz, though Chiaotzu, Roshi, and Krillin couldn’t be revived since they already died and were revived previously)

When Frieza finds out that Goku’s on planet Yardrat, Frieza arrives, and fights Goku. Goku has the upper hand initially, but then Frieza goes straight to his final form, and quickly turns the tables torturing Goku slowly before intending to kill him, gloating that he’ll purge Earth all over again just to spite Goku. Vegeta arrives boasting about becoming the Legendary Super Saiyan, but Frieza curb stomps and tortures him too. He gives Vegeta one last chance to redeem himself, ordering Vegeta to kill Goku, but Vegeta refuses to obey Frieza not out of care for Goku, but out of pride. Frieza gets angered by this and attempts to kill Vegeta, but Goku takes the attack for Vegeta, dying after telling Vegeta that it’s up to him.

The fury Vegeta feels about being helpless against Frieza, and that a low class saiyan saved his life triggers Vegeta’s super saiyan transformation, leading to Vegeta defeating and killing Frieza (even after letting Frieza go 100%). In Other World, Frieza immediately attempts to erase Goku from existence and rampage across the afterlife, but Queen Enmu does some technique that causes Frieza to be frozen in place, allowing her to send Frieza to hell.

Heinous by the standards of the story?

Pretty much as heinous as canon with his penchant for torture, genocide, and killing loved ones just to hurt others. And with the heinous standard having an arguably lower bar than in canon otherwise, Frieza’s definitely the nastiest character in the fanfic. Vegeta, who doesn’t count for making a Heel–Face Turn, is the second most heinous character in the story, and even he falls far behind Frieza in deeds. Gero isn’t even as heinous as his canon counterpart, only trying to kill the heroes, Cell and the rest of the Androids never happen in the story due to Raditz causing Gero to lose all his work during his purge, and while Buu and Babidi are alluded to in the final chapter, they don’t actually make an appearance.

Any mitigating factors?

Now, Frieza is pretty fond of Vegeta, arguably moreso than his canon counterpart. He admits in his head that he’d rather not kill Vegeta, and when torturing him, he even brings up the idea of possibly regretting killing him. That said, this is solely because Vegeta’s ruthless and powerful. He likes Vegeta for being useful, not caring for him as a person. Even when thinking about the possibility of regretting killing Vegeta in the future, he states in his head that he’s having too much fun torturing Vegeta to care about it at the moment. So I’d say no.

Final Thoughts?

[tup]

Edited by Awesomekid42 on Jan 22nd 2020 at 4:02:56 AM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#189010: Oct 26th 2019 at 10:33:06 AM

[tup] Frieza

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
KingofNightmares Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#189012: Oct 26th 2019 at 10:39:25 AM

Do I even have to say it? [tup] Frieza.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
toonyloon Since: Jul, 2011
#189014: Oct 26th 2019 at 10:45:39 AM

Easy [tup] Frieza.

BTW, if Chrysalis does get up (which seems very likely at this point), it would be very fitting, because she (specifically, her comic counterpart) just so happens to be the page image for Vile Villain, Saccharine Show.

DelphineTheDelphox I thought sharks were my friends. from The Alola Region Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I thought sharks were my friends.
#189015: Oct 26th 2019 at 10:51:36 AM

Yay to Daddy's Little Prince-, I mean Frieza.

Edited by DelphineTheDelphox on Oct 26th 2019 at 10:52:01 AM

RIP KissAnime.
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#189016: Oct 26th 2019 at 10:52:11 AM

That actually brings me a question. Should someone also EP her Comic counterpart?

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#189017: Oct 26th 2019 at 10:53:04 AM

[tup] Frieza.

Also, the Comics are still ongoing, and often re-do events from the show. So it might be a while before she's Effort-postable.

Shadow?
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#189019: Oct 26th 2019 at 10:56:40 AM

Yes to Frieza...regarding Honkai...what I really don't like is how long it took to respond to good faith criticism. For all the claims of how this happened, when you say "I got the info to post from a friend" and what amounts to plagiarism? People were trying to discuss Honkai before and you kept shutting them down because it was "yours" here. If you can't do the work and do it properly, then don't post from it.

I'm not okay with this or willing to pass it off as just a few mistakes. This looks like it was a massive storm of red flags that were summarily ignored just to EP someone. I don't want to see it happening again here. Next time, we should get mods involved.

Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 26th 2019 at 10:57:06 AM

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#189020: Oct 26th 2019 at 10:57:15 AM

[up][up][up]True. In 2020, they are doing season 10 comics, which would take place in between the timeskip in the last episode of MLP, and we don't know if the villainous trio is still trapped in stone in the epilogue, so it's theoretically possible they could redeem the trio in the comics similar to how Discord was redeemed.

Edited by bobg on Oct 26th 2019 at 10:58:35 AM

jjj
toonyloon Since: Jul, 2011
#189021: Oct 26th 2019 at 11:02:57 AM

[up][up][up][up][up]If I'm not mistaken, Drake Clawfang is planning to do the EP on her comic version.

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#189023: Oct 26th 2019 at 11:06:36 AM

[up][up] They told me in a pm they weren't interested.

jjj
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#189024: Oct 26th 2019 at 11:18:41 AM

Couple of EP's for today...the first?

What's the work?

Rampant, on Netflix, is a 2018 Korean zombie film set in the Joseon dynasty....King Lee Jo is seen as a weak king, overly obeisant to the Qing dynasty of China when his eldest son tries to buy European guns to repel the Qing....unfortunately the Europeans have just kinda dealt with a zombie plague and a few zombies are on board in the holds. The minister of War exposes the crown prince's plot, but things go wrong...and a zombie outbreak hits, leading to the crown prince's younger brother to save the day with his comrades, against rhe corrupt, evil minister of war, Kim Ja-joon

Who is Kim Ja-joon?

Stoking the King's paranoia with fear of foreigners and...everything that isn't him, really, Ja-joon is the secret leader of a rebellion, wanting a stronger Korea ruled by himself. Kim blows open the Crown Prince's well meaning plot and frames them as traitors, having them tortured until the Crown Prince intervenes and kills himself to beg his father to spare their lives. The King is left devastated, but Kim has any other 'conspirators' ordered killed under the claim it is the king's orders...upon the discovery of the zombies, a soldier is bitten and the virus is transferred.

Now, the crown prince? Left a request for his wife and unborn baby to be placed under the protection of his little brother Gaglim (Or 'Lee Chung' at Netflix has it) Lee Chung returns from Qing for his brother's funeral with his comrades. Kim tries to have them assassinated...and the zombified villagers attack. One survives and Kim throws him into a basement to turn on his own. He proceeds to send in one of the king's favorite concubines, who's on his payroll and feeds her to said zombie, infecting her...and then sends her to court where she attacks and infects the king....as the outbreak spreads, Kim convinces the king it's just 'civil unrest' and to ignore Lee Chung's request for an army, condemning everyone in the vicinity to zombified death so he could take advantage of the chaos.

At the time, the Qing have a delegation visiting. Kim's plot takes fruit as the King changes, Kim killing him...and then has the zombies unleashed to slaughter everyone in the palace and the Qing while he barricades himself with his fellow traitor ministers. Zombies fall in sunlight and can't move then, so Kim will just kick back, emerge and build a new country with himself as the ruler...all goes well until an infected soldier bites him. When his men are suddenly split on just who's gonna be in control, Kim slaughters them all, even those still loyal to him and chops off his hand, resulting in him being partially infected and ignored by rhe zombies as he tries to lead them to massacre the survivors, even killing several of the heroes personally

One of the infected heroes has a plan...get to the palace, beat the drums to lure the zombies by the sound, and then set it afire, trapping them and destroying them, but Kim kills him first, forcing Lee Chung to do so, Kim fighting him all the while as Lee Chung fights through a horde of zombies.

The fight goes to the roof as Lee Chung instigates the fire, and the battle ends with Lee Chung defeats Kim, knocking him through the roof to plunge into the inferno below, saving his home.

Heinousness?

Worst in film as the Big Bad...he's got an enormous body count and is willing to let rhe zombies slaughter the capital city of the Joseon all so he can seize control.

Mitigating Qualities?

He talks a big game at times about "we must not let the Qing control us" but it's revealed all he cares about is power. He slaughters his men without any smatterings of remorse, inflicts a zombie apocalypse on his own men, and cares nothing for the people. He's an elitist who's good at playing people, but once he's infected, he just goes all out, with not a hint of impaired agency as it just makes him stronger and the zombies ignore him, so he opts to lead them.

Conclusion?

a big yes. Korean zombie action period film, btw. Recommend it.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

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