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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#188076: Oct 20th 2019 at 3:05:26 AM

@Nathan

Those are decent points. But I disagree for a number of reasons.

We do have an "Assume agency" thing here, we assume the Charachter has agency unless there's evidence to suggest they might not.

Nothing I've seen actually suggests the bear Dosent know What it's doing, and that's the problem, You have to provide evidence the Charachter Might not know what it's doing, not the other way around.

For example If a Charachter in a work is part of a race of Monsters, the work Dosent need to state that they aren't Always Chaotic Evil as long as it isn't suggested that They are.

Abstain on Coyolxauhqui

Edited by Kylotrope on Oct 20th 2019 at 3:25:26 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#188077: Oct 20th 2019 at 3:16:22 AM

Final Space season 3 has been announced? Hey Austin, Lighty, you two don’t mind if I share the discussion with you guys as well, I’m growing to really love the show, plus it’s always fun to be a part of a collab.

Edited by Michealthehero21 on Oct 20th 2019 at 3:24:20 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#188078: Oct 20th 2019 at 3:17:50 AM

Not touching chx since Username already reserved it and said he will do discussion.

This is rather Blanntly ignoring that.

Edited by miraculous on Oct 20th 2019 at 3:18:35 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#188079: Oct 20th 2019 at 3:21:08 AM

[tup] to Medusa, the Lady, Jose and Lansing. Abstain on the Raider and Coyolxauhqui; [tdown] to Brain.

Keshali Since: Jul, 2019
#188080: Oct 20th 2019 at 3:37:21 AM

"Not touching chx since Username already reserved it and said he will do discussion."

Sorry, can you clarify this? Are you talking about Coyolxauhqui?

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#188081: Oct 20th 2019 at 3:52:08 AM

[tup] Cutter, Pryce, Jose, Lady, Medusa, Lansing, Raider and Overlord

[tdown] Brain and Herscherr

[up] Yeah, User reserved that one and said he'd need a couple days to finish it.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#188082: Oct 20th 2019 at 4:05:39 AM

[tup] to Medusa, the Lady, and Commandant Mordecai Lansing.

[tdown] to the raider.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#188083: Oct 20th 2019 at 4:42:25 AM

Waiting for proper discussion to have an opinion on the most recent candidate.

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#188084: Oct 20th 2019 at 5:00:52 AM

I'll lean "keep" on Josh because of his pettiness, and I'll say yes to Lansing.

No to Brain and the Raider, though. I'll also refrain from voting on the Legend Quest candidate for now.

Critica7 Self-Declared King of Everything from Smallville Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Self-Declared King of Everything
#188085: Oct 20th 2019 at 5:03:33 AM

[tup] Mordecai Lansing

[tdown] Raider

Check out my current fanfiction project.
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#188086: Oct 20th 2019 at 5:35:49 AM

.......Feel a bit disrespected by that effortpost, especially since it looks a bit bare-boned and lacking in too much detail.

I will still give my report once I am done watching the season...but damn, that took some of the fun out of it.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#188088: Oct 20th 2019 at 5:45:37 AM

Oh right yeah if you guys are curious the CDC head, Swenson from newsflesh doesn't actually count.

Hes only in LIKE two chapters which wouldn't be a problem if he wasn't seriously disconnected from the crimes going on there. It's his Dragons like Tate and Wynne who actually do shit. We never even get confirmation that Swenson gave the order. I guess you could assume since he's the boss but dunno that seems to be pushing it....

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#188090: Oct 20th 2019 at 7:42:31 AM

[tup] to Mordecai

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#188091: Oct 20th 2019 at 7:46:47 AM

I'll catch up on the others shortly, but since Builder was brought up again last night, I want to be clear this ain't exactly a hill to die on for me, I'm just filling an October quota.

But as for final votes on the character, looking at both the initial discussion and last nights discussion the current tally is.

13 [tup] - Papyru; Falcoln; Delphine; Mad Crow; Georgie; Miraculous; ACW; Elfen; Imperial Magisty; Austin; (possibly) King of Nightmares; Keshali; and Kylo.

5 [tdown] - Kazuya Prota (twice); Lighty (presumably); Critica; Clown Face; and Nathan.

3 - Abstaining - Sky; Colister; Pure Grain.

Now Kylo did a pretty good job at answering Nathan's question, so I am gonna answer the objection of "Assuming agency for a sentient Teddy Bear" - there are quite a few examples of the SCP Foundation having anomalous inanimate objects that are sentient, that not only display human like intelligence, but emotion and varying degrees of personality - so seemingly inanimate objects in the Foundations multiverse having agency isn't exactly out of the realm of possibility.

Mind you a few of those examples were explained with supernatural means or classic AI means, but I think the point still stands.

Edited by Beast on Oct 20th 2019 at 9:49:49 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#188092: Oct 20th 2019 at 7:57:07 AM

Uh no to him upon thinking about it.

Doesn't seem to be quite heinous enough. Plus I'm not sure living teddy bear which is a killer is played totally serious.

[up]I dunno dude if those were A.I.s and supernatural possessers then I'm not sure we really can rule that living teddy bear has agency.

Edited by miraculous on Oct 20th 2019 at 8:03:00 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#188093: Oct 20th 2019 at 7:58:57 AM

[up][up] I am going to abstain as I don't know the work well enough to judge.

Edited by Bullman on Oct 20th 2019 at 10:01:24 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#188094: Oct 20th 2019 at 8:02:45 AM

There is no official canon for the SCP Foundation.

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#188095: Oct 20th 2019 at 8:06:08 AM

@ Beast I said I was abstaining since SCP-1048-A felt much more heinous for me. I just thought I needed to address a few issues, hence why I more or less "took the side" of those for his inclusion.

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#188096: Oct 20th 2019 at 8:12:10 AM

-exhales-

Should I do another "professional evaluation" on Evil Teddy when I get off work today so we can all settle this?

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
AlmightyKingPrawn I can chase the wind, I can race the rain from Down at Fraggle Rock *clap clap* Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
I can chase the wind, I can race the rain
#188097: Oct 20th 2019 at 8:15:45 AM

[tup] Mordecai

She/her. Profile pic is by Richard Michael Gomez @StarmansArt. Please watch Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock. https://youtu.be/Vm92JNgPbqk
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#188098: Oct 20th 2019 at 8:15:45 AM

[up][up] Nope. It's a rather short story. Don't waste your time. You helped a lot before, and I'm thankful for that, but I'm sure you have better things to do.

Here's the link for anyone else willing to take a look. As mentioned before, it's a rather short story. Anyone can quickly read it and weigh in.

That being said, I apologize if I sounded condescending.

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Oct 20th 2019 at 5:15:57 PM

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#188100: Oct 20th 2019 at 8:21:55 AM

@Austin: Well if there's no official Canon then that strengthens the idea that he doesn't have agency. Since you can't use those other sources as proof.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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