During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
@ACW Don't worry, Goeth was also Faux Affably Evil towards Oskar and considering the film was inspired by Schindler's List, they definately took this element from him. May the victims of both atrocities rest in peace.
I was thinking the same before watching the movie, aka assuming that all soldiers were the same, until Ida is presented as the guy in charge of the war crimes.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Oct 15th 2019 at 4:59:17 PM
Yes to Preacher!God (That eye thing is big yeesh) and... I'll trust Crow's judgement. Yes to YHVH.
I think we can rightly say he has a Depending on the Writer thing going on - unless Atlus just wanna keep That Yellow Bastard mysterious.
It's weird being atheist sometimes - I forget what faith in the divine feels like often and I may be insensitive. So I wanna say - I dunno. I'm getting sentimental now.
Edited by PolarPhantom on Oct 15th 2019 at 9:33:55 AM
BTW Crow, sorry if I overstepped.
On topic, I'm kinda surprised we don't have many CMs for Japan and Italy for WWII. We have some Soviets, and literally dozens of Nazis (Hitler, Mengele, and Heydrich alone are over 20; and that's not even counting all of Skull's).
Edited by ACW on Oct 15th 2019 at 4:40:07 AM
If they made a sequel to Pearl Harbor and had the soldier who dropped the nukes, that might be worth a look for an American CM for WWII.
Also Polar don't worry. I'm a devout Christian and I don't find your comments offensive at least to that extent. I'm actually very accepting of other religions or Atheists/Agnostics.
Edited by Klavice on Oct 15th 2019 at 2:06:09 AM
@ACW Please, you don't need to apologize, war is a sensitive topic after all.
@Polar As an atheist myself, I understand how you feel...
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As far as the Allied Nations go, we have Private Quinn from the British Army, not sure if he's the only one.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Oct 15th 2019 at 6:16:51 AM
I'm also Jewish, so there's that. As for an Allied member, I'd think only a traitor or Sociopathic Soldier would count, unless it's a propaganda piece.
@ PolarPhantom It's alright. Being a Muslim, I've seen worse.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)I should also add: When it comes to 'Nam, a majority of CMs are American soldiers or their allies: We have the guys from Platoon, Mick Taylor and his commanding officer from Wolf Creek, McGregor from Night Wars, Sergeant Scott from Universal Soldier, Spacek from War Dog and more, which reminds me to watch more Vietnam flicks.
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I had another but I decided to give it to Duck, which I'm looking forward to.
Now that you mention it...
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Oct 15th 2019 at 7:13:44 AM
I know Scott returned; there are continuity issues? Huh.
BTW, pothole his name to Sociopathic Soldier?
Looks like the only Vietnamese CMs we have (at least for films) are Heroes Shed No Tears; Vlassov (Russian working with them); Jakoda (ditto); Yin & Quoc; White Ghost dude.
EDIT: Lemme take care of these now:
- Universal Soldier (1992): Andrew Scott was a sergeant in The Vietnam War, where he goes renegade as he starts butchering civilians and kills his own squad when they try to stop him. He cuts off the ears of his victims and wears them in a necklace. He orders Private Luc Deveraux to kill the two remaining "traitors", two Vietnamese children, doing the job himself when Deveraux refuses. Both are reborn years later as memory-wiped Super Soldiers, and as soon as Scott regains his memories, he kills his controllers and goes on a blood-filled vendetta across the States to punish Deveraux for disobeying his illegal orders back in Vietnam, graphically killing anyone who gets in his way. At the end, he takes Deveraux's elderly parents and his love interest hostage, awarding all of them the death penalty. Despite claims earlier in the film that he thinks he's still fighting the insurgents in Vietnam, Scott later plainly admits that he's fully aware where he is and what he's doing, and his only motive is revenge for Deveraux refusing to partake in his atrocities.
- White Ghost (1988): The unnamed commander of the Vietnamese prisoner camp during the war subjects prisoners to various terrible punishments and brutal executions. Determined to capture the mysterious American known as the White Ghost, the camp commander brutally tortures the captive Thi Hau in front of the American mercenary who he believes is the White Ghost in order to gain information on why he's there. When the torture fails, the commander executes the mercenary, shooting his kneecaps first as revenge for the mercenary insulting him. After the real White Ghost, Steve Shepard, tries and fails to save Thi, the commander attaches explosives to her, planning on setting them off when he comes to save her. Later, when he starts losing a fight with Shepard, he makes one last attempt to blow Thi up just to spite him.
Edited by ACW on Oct 15th 2019 at 6:20:31 AM
Sure fits him well
Also yeah they are. Every like sequel (3 timelines in total) is a reboot of its own. The original is the only one that stays consistant and is Canon to all of them. Yet these timelines aren't Canon to each other.
Edited by miraculous on Oct 15th 2019 at 3:22:34 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Holy crap, that sounds like some Halloween-type continuity screwiness
Also, for those who've not seen it, the batch
. 45 even.
On the subject of historical wars, do we have any Ottoman CMs from the World War I era? Considering the Young Turks committed multiple genocides, you'd think there'd be some Amon Goeth or Georges Rutaganda type.
Yes to Doug, Shape-Shifting Demon, Tate and Ida.
I think Italians do not get portrayed as monsters in WWII related media, mainly due to how badly Italy performed during the war, Italy's lack of success in the war makes them easy to overlook.
I think its more amusing to see if there is a monster in conflict like the War of 1812. Not likely, but would still be amusing to see.
Edited by Overlord on Oct 15th 2019 at 4:05:24 AM

Congrats Beast!
Things are really about to get Fun around here