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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#187251: Oct 14th 2019 at 2:17:38 PM

[tup] to Tamamo. Change to [tup] on God after watching that.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#187252: Oct 14th 2019 at 2:22:06 PM

I don't know. I mean when you look at songs we have based on established media like Berserk or A Song of Ice and Fire, we didn't include Song!Griffith or Song!Aryes on those pages as far as I can't tell.

Fun fact though, the creator of Doki Doki Literature Club! says he based the game off an idea he had for a Creepypasta, but that doesn't mean much here.

But speaking of such media, it occured to me that the Dollmaker from Welcome to the Game is based on a Creepypasta character. The game itself is mostly orignal, but I'm wondering if we should move his entry to the Pasta page too ?

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#187253: Oct 14th 2019 at 2:23:57 PM

Hmm, I'll use fanfiction Creepypasta than. And yeah, let me take care of that other thing right now.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#187254: Oct 14th 2019 at 2:26:18 PM

[up] you know with many people voting [tup] For God peharps you can now add him in the pending cm write ups (abstains don’t go against the [tup])

Edited by G-Editor on Oct 13th 2019 at 11:27:47 PM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#187255: Oct 14th 2019 at 2:31:42 PM

So I've been traveling all day, and reading EP's on my phone. So to catch up.

[tup] Juzo Mido.

[tup] Schwarlitz Longhena.

[tup] Sheriff Daniels.

[tup] Tamamo-no-Mae.

I thought I had another Halloween EP coming up but rewatching The Haunting Hour, yeah I got nothing for Farmer Palmer of The Pumpkinheads since we learn little about him and he appear to have some twisted care for the demon children he's been growing and is largely left unexplained. The episodes sequel doesn't give us anything new on him since he's Killed Offscreen between episodes.

Edited by Beast on Oct 14th 2019 at 4:33:33 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
DelphineTheDelphox I thought sharks were my friends. from The Alola Region Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I thought sharks were my friends.
#187256: Oct 14th 2019 at 2:34:28 PM

I guess the quotes are staying then.

RIP KissAnime.
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#187257: Oct 14th 2019 at 2:46:37 PM

I've been summoned.

To elaborate on this line:

"While kidnapping Amica, the king then orders Vasith to kill all innocent grave robbers to feed Amica the soul that he needs to sacrifice her while also needing the soul of vengeance so that he could transcend to become a god."

Well, iirc... In order to become god, Medius has Vasith to suck souls from some innocent people and because of this, Vasith ended up attacking the grave robbers in Magic Kingdom of Litus tomb as a result. I should note that Vasith? Is actually a suit of magic armor called the Soul Vessel. Oh! And another thing regarding the Soul of Vengeance. I think in one of the cutscenes, Medius needs to bathe Amica's soul with sadness, hatred, rage and despair so that he could become god much more easier after sacrificing Amica to Primatus. (That's another thing why he committed genocide towards the Dragonblood clan via his pet knight, Vasith) So yeah... This is a hard thing to explain.

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Oct 14th 2019 at 2:48:04 AM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#187258: Oct 14th 2019 at 2:58:21 PM

On ATOM RPG

  • Complete Monster: Many characters are explicitly irredeemable, but special mention goes to the barbecue vendors in Peregon, who on top of purchasing slaves to butcher them for meat, have a wide variety of Noodle Implements scattered across their underground base that imply they're viciously and sadistically torturing them. In detail, one room has crucifixes the slaves are lashed to to be used as target practice with crossbows; one room has chairs with belts to strap people in facing a projection playing what appears to be Communist propaganda; and finally, in the central room, there's a large metal bull a la Brazen Bull.

Weird....I could have sworn I sent this to the cut list for violating the no groups rule.

Edited by miraculous on Oct 14th 2019 at 2:58:37 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#187259: Oct 14th 2019 at 3:19:35 PM

So what do we wanna do with that sentence for Medius?

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#187260: Oct 14th 2019 at 3:24:26 PM

Let me think of a perfect word that could replace it... Its a bit harder to explain. Just look up at my own explanation above mir's post @ACW

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#187261: Oct 14th 2019 at 3:42:42 PM

Mir, what do you wanna do about that?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#187262: Oct 14th 2019 at 3:43:51 PM

I dunno could you try and use the cut list on it.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#187264: Oct 14th 2019 at 4:29:02 PM

In that case...Slight retweak on Medius' writeup:

  • Before: Duchis Medius is the ancient king of Medius Empire and the man closest to Celestial God Primatus. Desiring immortality for himself, he orders his Divine Knights, led by his "pet knight", Vasith, to commit genocide against the Dragonblood clan and kidnap their Oracle Maiden, Amica, which resulted in the surviving members of the Dragonblood clan seeking vengeance against him. While kidnapping Amica, the king then orders Vasith to kill all innocent grave robbers to feed Amica the soul that he needs to sacrifice her, while also needing the soul of vengeance so that he could transcend to become a god. It was also revealed that he is responsible for the unrest in Maralyus Kingdom as the king manipulated the Dragonblood clan that lived in there via his envoy to cause a rebellion, which resulted in the Dragonblood clan facing their imminent destruction.
  • After: Duchis Medius is the ancient king of Medius Empire and the man closest to Celestial God Primatus. Desiring immortality for himself, he orders his Divine Knights, led by his "pet knight", Vasith, to commit genocide against the Dragonblood clan and kidnap their Oracle Maiden, Amica, which resulted in the surviving members of the Dragonblood clan seeking vengeance against him. It was soon revealed that Medius feed Amica's soul with feelings of despair and hatred in order to sacrifice her to Celestial Being Primatus so that he could transcend to become a god. It was also revealed that he is responsible for the unrest in Maralyus Kingdom as the king manipulated the Dragonblood clan that lived in there via his envoy to cause a rebellion, which resulted in the Dragonblood clan facing their imminent destruction.

Thoughts? It's not the best but I can do another re-tweak if you guys want

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Oct 14th 2019 at 4:29:29 AM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Fan727 Since: Sep, 2019
#187265: Oct 14th 2019 at 4:32:11 PM

(Had just written something, then re-thought. Perhaps another time by me or another user.)

Edited by Fan727 on Oct 14th 2019 at 5:02:54 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#187266: Oct 14th 2019 at 4:36:56 PM

Re, the music thing: we do have fansong Griffith and Nightfall In Middle Earth's Morgoth on Music.Monster

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#187267: Oct 14th 2019 at 4:44:16 PM

Hey guys, I was taking a look at Johan Liebert’s entry on Monster’s ymmv page, and I have to ask, does it need some de potholing, cause I counted a total of 10 on it:

  • Complete Monster: This work, dedicated to exploring whether there is such a thing as pure evil, concludes that while anybody, no matter now heinous, can be redeemed, it is Johan Liebert's refusal to seek redemption that makes him the titular monster. A sadistic chessmaster since he learned to walk and talk, Johan murdered his own foster parents and manipulated over 50 adults and children into massacring each other even as a preteen, and, as an adult, Johan is on a personal journey to become, in his own words, as dark as possible. He is also trying to find out if there is anyone as evil as he is out there, or, failing that, forcing the heroic Dr. Tenma, and/or his own pacifistic sister, Nina Foertner, to kill him in cold blood. In this way, he hopes to establish that even the best people can become just like him. Along the way he convinces children to jump from rooftops; gets a recovering alcoholic drunk before throwing him off a building; sets a highly-occupied library aflame; and convinces various serial killers to murder every foster family he has ever lived with, as part of his quest to become an Un-person. In the end, Johan tries to manipulate the population of an entire town into slaughtering each other, and, failing at this, prepares to shoot a child in the head just to torture Tenma. Numerous excuses are proposed for Johan's behavior, yet each one is ultimately undermined, revealing that in the end, Johan simply is pure, unadulterated evil.

Edited by Michealthehero21 on Oct 14th 2019 at 4:45:36 AM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#187268: Oct 14th 2019 at 4:47:01 PM

[up] I think it's already been depotholed because the original has mass amount of potholes

Anyways, @mir @ACW Please comment on my writeup for Medius or my elaboration on him since you two brought it up

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#187269: Oct 14th 2019 at 4:49:00 PM

[up] Ok, but I thought the limit was 6. (Or was it 8) But looking at it, maybe it needs a rewrite too, looks kinda weird to be honest.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#187270: Oct 14th 2019 at 4:50:17 PM

@Michael Nah, I think both Scraggs and 43110 are in support on keeping the writeup as it is considered the fact that Johan is pretty much an analysis of this trope in general. Sure, it's not a badge of honor but given what Monster is about? Yeah...

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Oct 14th 2019 at 4:50:53 AM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#187272: Oct 14th 2019 at 5:10:11 PM

Please leave it the way it is: Ravok finally found a nice way to capture Johan's big crimes and the analysis of this trope the work provides and every so often someone seems to want to swing by and play around with it.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#187273: Oct 14th 2019 at 5:30:32 PM

[up] To be honest, pretty good point. Makes perfect sense when you put it like that.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#187274: Oct 14th 2019 at 5:50:29 PM

Hey everyone, just curious about the Tamamo EP, which version of GeGeGe no Kitarō is she from?

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010

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