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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#187201: Oct 14th 2019 at 8:52:01 AM

The photos do show an execution. But for a limited home invasion flick? I think torture, and multiple murders with a clear pattern...in the photos, we see multiple people being posed for execution, too.

Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 14th 2019 at 8:57:59 AM

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#187202: Oct 14th 2019 at 8:53:46 AM

Since a pattern is established with his cartel murders, I'll [tup] Daniels.

@Delphine: I think that quote can go too; I don't think it quite hits the criteria for CM quotes either.

Edited by falcontalons on Oct 14th 2019 at 8:57:07 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#187203: Oct 14th 2019 at 8:55:48 AM

Yes, barely, to Daniels, though I think him being repellent isn't really a factor. Played by Carlo Rota, who's probably best known as Morris from 24 and who has a CM in Sadiq.

DelphineTheDelphox I thought sharks were my friends. from The Alola Region Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I thought sharks were my friends.
#187204: Oct 14th 2019 at 8:58:53 AM

I'll throw my hat in to cut the Joker quote too then. That's four to cut the Marik and Brujo quotes, three to cut the Alduin and Trigon quotes, one to keep the Alduin and Trigon quotes, and two to cut the Joker quote. Anyone else?

Edited by DelphineTheDelphox on Oct 14th 2019 at 9:00:34 AM

RIP KissAnime.
Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#187206: Oct 14th 2019 at 9:10:44 AM

BTW, the Fool's name was originally Romar.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#187207: Oct 14th 2019 at 9:12:32 AM

For anyone, who abstained from voting on God, here how he usually played in the show, right in the moment where he bites off Jesse's eye in 2:30 time mark:

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#187208: Oct 14th 2019 at 9:36:33 AM

Yeah that was one I came across while doing my own research on him, those are the kind of vids you wanna be including to sell us Vile. I appreciate the honesty in posting the sillier ones but we need both to weigh out how serious he can get.

Edit: Oh and a yeah for Lighty's two latest.

Edited by 43110 on Oct 14th 2019 at 12:37:12 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#187209: Oct 14th 2019 at 9:40:47 AM

I'm 100 percent good keeping him with that.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#187210: Oct 14th 2019 at 9:50:32 AM

One thing that gives me a pause on God is him restoring Starr's beauty, the thing that matters the most to him, after he brings back Humperdoo to him.

And he also tells him to run away instead of killing him when he sneaks out of the Apocalypse..

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#187211: Oct 14th 2019 at 9:55:01 AM

[up]There was no Apocalypse anymore, Humperdoo died and Jesus refused to replace him, resulting in Jesse starting to track him down with Genesis (which shown to be more powerful than God) and all Grail (who were forced to search for him, because Jesse used the Word on them), where God then tries to make Jesse say that he loves him.

Plus God was going to destroy ALL humanity and replace it with another species, which he created to completely love him.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Oct 14th 2019 at 7:57:08 PM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#187213: Oct 14th 2019 at 10:00:07 AM

Doesn't really change that he restored Starr's beauty when he could've just disposed of him (he didn't really need him, he wasn't even a true believer too).

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#187214: Oct 14th 2019 at 10:05:06 AM

Herr Starr wasn't worth his time then and God haven't shown to make this decision out of any care for Starr, he just considers him THAT below his attention (plus it was a moment of comedy). And him restoring his beauty, you remember that God is narcissist, who likes to rewatch video of Abraham saying that he loved him over and over, God loves to hear his children sing praises to him and restoring Herr was an easy way to make him believe his lies (about Apocalypse only killing part of humanity instead of the entirety) and cooperate in helping him bring about the nuclear war.

EDIT: I think it was shown clearly that God didn't care about "True Believer" thing anyway. All that matters to him was his creation loving and fearing him.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Oct 14th 2019 at 8:06:11 PM

TheAlmightyKingPrawn Darkwing Goose from Surrounding the mind of A Self Called Nowhere Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Darkwing Goose
#187215: Oct 14th 2019 at 10:22:27 AM

[tup] God, Mido, Daniela [tdown] Poseidon

Edited by TheAlmightyKingPrawn on Oct 14th 2019 at 1:23:09 PM

SP00PY month!
Zuxtron Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel from Node 03 (On A Trope Odyssey)
#187216: Oct 14th 2019 at 10:37:40 AM

These examples were added to YMMV.AI The Somnium Files. I don't think they were discussed here (searching "complete monster ai the somnium files" doesn't give any results), the write-ups are somewhat lacking compared to the usual amount of effort put into them, and I'm not sure they're really even valid examples, so I got rid of them:

  • Complete Monster:
    • Saito Sejima, a Serial Killer and the Big Bad of the game. A sort of justified example, but an example nonetheless. Considering that his brain couldn't secrete oxytocin properly and he only felt pleasure from killing, and remembering that unlike Date while in his body, he didn't receive any sort of medication, it's no surprise that he ended up this way.
    • Rohan Kumakura, The Dragon of Saito Sejima. A much more ruthless yakuza leader than his brother. Not to mention he had a thing for women's right eyes, hence his partnership in crime with the Cyclops Killer.
    • So Sejima. A Corrupt Politician, had an affair with and impregnated a high school senior. Didn't seem to care for his son and didn't give him proper medication for his disorder. Being a Karma Houdini definitely doesn't help him gain the fans' sympathy either.

The first example is plenty heinous, but he's clinically insane, which weakens his case. I'm not sure about the second one, but the third one is definitely far from evil enough to qualify.

PureGrainAlkaSeltzer The Lord Of Walruses from 1200 Pennsylvania Ave Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
The Lord Of Walruses
#187217: Oct 14th 2019 at 10:38:50 AM

[tup] to Diablo, Nick, Monique, god, Mizo, Longhega, And Daniels

[tdown] to Poseidon

I have no idea what I am doing
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#187218: Oct 14th 2019 at 10:46:46 AM

Alrighty, I've got one more for right now...

I've done an effortpost for this show before. Gegege no Kitaro is a longrunning franchise in Japan about a supernatural Yokai boy named Kitaro who protects the human race from supernatural threats while remaining aloof from it. Kitaro is befriended by a girl named Mana who functions as the Audience Surrogate while getting into numerous adventures with the Yokai...now, previously I had successfully effortposted the evil western Yokai leader Backbeard, but several arcs have passed. The first Big Bad of the series, a creepy, faceless being, is terrifying but doesn't count at all, being a tragic villain who can barely understand what he's doing wrong...after his defeat, though, one of Kitaro's closest friends, the Cat Girl Neko-Musume is killed and Kitaro bargains with Enma, deeper of the underworld to release her. In return, Kitaro has to hunt down a group of escaped monsters, a terrifying quartet of Yokai called the Four Treasonous Generals while being opposed by a boy named Isurugi, the last of the Kidoshu, exorcists who battle evil Yokai....now, let's talk the last and nastiest of the Four Generals: Tamamo-no-Mae.

Who is Tamamo-no-Mae?

The Nine Tailed Fox, a beautiful and sadistic woman who causes chaos and destruction for fun, Tamamo is the one who wiped out the Kidoshu, massacring them all while leaving Isurugi the only survivor. Imprisoned in Jigoku, or hell, Tamamo managed to escape with the others, using clones of herself to begin plotting a way to make herself the most powerful in the world...by throwing the material and supernatural worlds out of whack. In the underworld, Tamamo harnesses all the incurring souls to overbalance it, plotting to flood the material world with dead souls, which could have horrible repercussions and destroy both, or do serious damage...and to increase the influx of dead souls?

Tamamo uses her clones to hypnotize and seduce other world leaders and those in the UN...in essence? She plots a war on Japan, causing an international crisis so other nations will invade the country and wipe Japan off the map. As Kitaro catches on to her with the others, she reveals it's too late to stop it, with warships closing in on Japan for a gargantuan war. Isurugi learns that Tamamo-no-Mae was the one to kill his people, prompting Tamamo to snark how annoying it is she "missed one" when wiping out the Kidoshu, and attempting to slaughter the lot of them while harnessing the souls in the underworld to boost her strength, after she devours Enma.

Mana and Neko-Musume sabotage her plans in the underworld and Kitaro takes on the power of the Yokai Isurugi had absorbed that Tamamo was trying to harness. In a major battle, Kitaro takes the lead and obliterates the wicked fox woman for good, with Isurugi realizing his errors and leaving on a journey of realization.

Heinousness?

Kitaro hasn't exactly been lighthearted and fuzzy. People get killed, we had an army of Tanuki try to conquer Japan, a lot of nasty Monster of the Week episodes, and Backbeard is a huge monster responsible for genocide and world conquest. Nanashi, tragic or no, nearly threw Japan into chaos and did tons of damage...but Tamamo nearly destroys the underworld and causes a world to wipe out one or two massive countries. Of the Four Treasonous Generals, she's the worst, even factoring in Ibukimaru, who wiped out a small country himself (doesn't count, he was driven mad by the death of his beloved, and is firmly repentant for it, becoming Isurugi's mentor)....Tamamo is just nasty all the way through.

Conclusion?

A hearty yes and another fun CM from this series.

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
lrrose Since: Jul, 2009
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#187221: Oct 14th 2019 at 10:50:01 AM

Incidentally, Kitaro is on its final arc now, so I'll see who counts off this one

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#187222: Oct 14th 2019 at 10:55:19 AM

[tup]Tamamo-no-Mae

First nine tailed Fox cm ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#187223: Oct 14th 2019 at 10:58:26 AM

[up] Dakki says hello. Coincidentally, I love this type of CM

[tup] Tamamo

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Oct 14th 2019 at 10:59:16 AM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#187224: Oct 14th 2019 at 11:09:29 AM

Yes to Tamamo-no-Mae. So if I've got this right: Backbeard wants to make everyone his slave; Tamamo-no-Mae just wants to cause chaos For the Evulz?

Both from the 2018 series, right?

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance

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