During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Even if we compared Builder to the other guys, Kylo is right about him being pretty low on the power teir. Comparing it to someone like 106 or the Yule Man is like comparing a tiger to a scorpain. Or in the Scarlet King's case, a whale to a mosquito.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."Thanks for weighing in Age.
I officially say "keep" to Tyreen and Firefly.
As for Caine the Hollow Man? I gotta abstain. It's been so long since I've seen that film my own view is hazy. If I rewatched it maybe I'd have a solid opinion, but all I have are the opposing arguments of this thread, and that isn't enough for me to make a true conclusion in this case.
I'm stunned how bad those entries are for Kimetsu no Yaiba.
Muzan has no 'standards' over Kagaya's sacrifice. He's just "I had no idea that guy was so dedicated and insane."
And pet the dog? Fucking seriously? He gives Daki encouragement, only to later reveal he considered her a weak liability who held her stronger brother back. And his "Good job, Hantengu!" Is only because Hantengu got Nezuko a power up that benefited him. Hantengu by that point is dead and Muzan doesn't bat an eye at that. Hantengu doesn't even KNOW about this, and all he feels when he dies is terror
I swear, it's like we need a cleanup to vet those tropes, too.
Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 12th 2019 at 7:04:16 AM
I say keep Caine. Early in the film, we see that he already has perverse tendencies (spying on his attractive neighbor) and being invisible meant that he didn't need to fear getting caught, so that's why he did it. Anyways, we see other animals receiving the invisibility serum and they don't go mad.
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and killsI proposed a cleanup thread for The Sociopath somewhere on the Hate Sink cleanup thread; when you have somebody like D.W. from Arthur on there...
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and killsAlright, now...time for an EP or two.
What's the work?
Mister Frost is a 1990 religious thriller concerning a mysterious wealthy man named Mister Frost who is caught as a Serial Killer, loads of corpses on his estate, tortured to death...he goes with the police willingly, where he encounters Sarah Day at the mental asylum he's placed at. See, Frost has an interesting claim...he says he's the devil himself.
Satan walks among us. And he's played by Jeff Goldblum.
Who is Mister Frost?
the mysterious, charming, supposed devil incarnate who plots to reduce man's faith in god, playing a cosmic sort of chess game as he tests and sadistically destroys those around him. Frost starts off by having kidnapped and tortured 24 people to death, children included, with the corpses found on his estate. He reveals to Sarah from the start his plan? To goad her into murdering him and corrupt her soul.
Strange things begin happening...Sarah's brother gains the ability to walk after years in a wheelchair, but more than that? People begin going insane, manipulated into destroying others, and/or themselves. Frost is always at the center of the chaos, like when a man Sarah had a one night stand with goes insane and attacks her, or patients getting worse and worse. As Frost puts it? "It used to be simple, good on one hand and evil on the other. There was a struggle. We had a game, and yes, we made it up." He hates how science has caused humans to forget how true Evil with a capital E exists.
One patient mysterious kills himself by jumping in front of a truck and Frost almost causes another suicide to get Sarah to beg him to let the man go, which forces her to admit she does believe in his power. Finally, after a lot of horror, Sarah decides to kill Frost to save everyone else, with Frost cheerily informing her she's "handing me a great victory." She pulls the trigger...and Frost possesses her, with Sarah locked away, Frost in her body now...waiting for his next game, the devil triumphant.
Heinousness?
Only villain in a surreal mind screwy film, but mental torment, manipulation, a body count and having tortured 24 people to death?
Mitigating Qualities?
He's Jeff Goldblum! He's charming, witty, and evil as you get. The film is really surreal, to say the least, but it's made clear Frost isn't just evil incarnate, he's Evil because he's chosen to embody Evil. He invented Evil, and he gets pissed when people imply the devil is 'defunct.' But he withholds vital information, treats all around him as pawns and is as awful as you'd expect the devil to be. Now, he does heal Sarah's brother, but as he puts it? Good can come of evil...and vice versa.
Conclusion?
And a yes.
Mister Frost
Second for Goldblum after Verminous Skumm
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Mr. Frost.
Edited by k410ren on Oct 12th 2019 at 10:56:33 AM
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and killsI know this film, but I assumed his serial killings to be Offscreen Villainy, guess I was wrong.
to Jeff Goldblum
You know, that's a good question. Nothing he does is without purpose, but it's hard to overlook torturing children to death (offscreen but we see the bodies exhumed from his mansion)
Frost is telling Sarah that he can do good things for an evil end, and good things can come of evil deeds. He heals her brother as part of a long con to convince her of his power and corrupt her.

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Considering that, I'm going to abstain on 1048
"It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times?"