During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Pokemon Trainer
Okay, I watched this video, so I decided to try my hand at doing an effort post for it.
What's The Work?
Voldemort: Origins of the Heir is a Harry Potter Fan Film about the backstory of Tom Marvolo Riddle/Lord Voldemort and the "untold story" of his friends, the other heirs to the Hogwarts Founders—Grisha McClaggen (Heir of Gryffindor), Wiglaf Sigurdsson (Heir of Ravenclaw) and Lazarus Smith (Heir of Hufflepuff). It can be viewed here.
It's not very good in terms of acting and has inconsistencies with canon, but the effects are decent and there's a natural and likely very expected candidate for Monsterdom in this Fan Film: Let's talk about Voldie!
Who Is Tom Riddle?
I trust all of you know ol' Voldie, but this story does kind of take some liberties by discussing a sort of Fanon version of the Dark Lord's teen years. After watching this, I get the feeling that this version of Voldemort is every bit as evil as his canon counterpart, so let's just started, shall we?
What Did He Do?
The story takes place mostly in flashbacks from Grisha as she's being interrogated by Soviet Aurors, from whom she has attempted to steal Tom Riddle's Diary, which she suspects is a Horcrux. Up until the ending, most of Riddle's crimes are told in these flashbacks, so I'll talk primarily about this.
Tom Riddle was old friends with the other founders' heirs (the Ravenclaw one of whom shouldn't exist, btw, as Rowena Ravenclaw's only daughter died without having any children, but let's ignore that), though I should probably use the word "friend" fairly loosely. Riddle is introduced when Grisha is clearly trying to flirt with him, but he rebuffs her advances and rants about how much he hates Muggles and Quidditch.
Shortly after, we get a scene revealing all four heirs where Grisha, Wiglaf and Lazarus are talking in the Room of Requirement about how they'll all bring peace to the world (and Lazarus has a moment where he tells Grisha he wants to marry her). Riddle arrives with Sarcastic Clapping and taunts Wiglaf, trying to tempt him into a duel. Wiglaf declines, but Lazarus ends up taking the offer instead, mostly with the hopes of impressing Grisha. The resulting duel breaks Lazarus' arm prompting Wiglaf to jump in and fight instead. We don't know the outcome of this duel, but a later scene reveals that this led to the other three cutting him out of the group.
After he leaves Hogwarts, Riddle does most of the canon stuff (apply to become Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher at Hogwarts, then cursing the position when he's declined, working at Borgin & Burke's, etc.). Later, Lazarus gets his hands on Helga Hufflepuff's Cup and sends it to his aunt, Hepzibah Smith for safekeeping. Riddle, however, catches wind of this and murders Lazarus before going to retrieve the Cup from Hepzibah.
We then get a canon compliant scene! After Riddle turns on the charm, Hepzibah is more than happy to show him not only the Cup but also Salazar Slytherin's Locket, which she inadvertantly reveals was sold to Borgin & Burke's by Merope Gaunt, Riddle's mother, and also kind of unintentionally insults her. This evidently strikes a sore nerve with Riddle (I'll explain why I don't think this is a redeeming quality later) and he proceeds to advance on her menacingly with his wand, managing to frighten her a little as she pleads for mercy. He taunts her, first with the murder of her nephew and then with both him and her being disgraces to their family name before giving her the Avada Kedavra treatment. He frames her House Elf, Hokey, as the murderer—claiming that she had poisoned her—and Hokey dies (implicitly committing suicide) after being forced to confess and taken into custody.
Later on, Grisha and Wiglaf are trying to find Riddle, who by this point has already started amassing his army, who are calling themselves "Death Eater". Wiglaf is completely and rightly convinced that he's irredeemable while Grisha is still somewhat in love with the guy (despite the whole, you know, murdering her other friend thing) and thinks he needs to be saved from himself. Wiglaf seeks to find and defeat Riddle, but fails and is murdered by him. This is implied to be the point where Grisha went full-on Broken Pedestal on Riddle and went hunting for him and his Horcruxes.
After telling this tale, Grisha is allowed to leave with the Horcrux to destroy it and is about to leave, until the Soviet Auror Leader, Markarov, asks her how exactly she figured out that they had the diary. Her response is...
"I didn't...or maybe I did."
Turns out, this wasn't Grisha McClaggen, it was a man disguised as her. Right before he wipes out all the Soviet aurors, he declares to them that he is Lord Voldemort.
Shortly thereafter, we see two aurors, one of whom is named "Igor" (hinted to be Igor Karkaroff), investigating the crime scene, with the dead body of Markarov and the bones of a woman, very obviously the real Grisha, that were used in some dark magic ritual. Apparently, Grisha was one of the people Mr. Riddle decided to kill for a Horcrux, and it's strongly implied that Lazarus and Wiglaf met the same fate when they died. Voldemort himself, meanwhile, has escaped and is loose somewhere.
Igor expresses sorrow in the fact that even after the dark wizard Grindelwald was defeated, good people continue to die at the hands of dark wizards and questions if it will ever end. His partner informs him that there is no end and that there will always be darkness in the world. But without it, we'd never remember the light.
Heinous Standard?
It's Lord Freaking Voldemort.
...Okay, I know that's not enough.
In his quest for ultimate power and immortality, Voldie is depicted here as being totally willing to betray and murder people he claimed were his friends, including one who he knew was hopelessly in love with him, as well as killing Hepzibah and framing her servant, leading to her death. In the span of such a short film, he manages to commit a lot of heinous deeds, and throws in lots of unnecessary cruelty into these acts, such as mocking Hepzibah Smith about the death of her nephew as he's about to murder her. It's hard not to say he's a rat bastard.
Mitigating Qualities?
There's only one and I don't think it really counts—when Hepzibah explains how Mr. Borgin got Slytherin's Locket, she claims that it was seemingly "stolen" by a mentally unwell woman who then sold it to Borgin. This woman was Merope Gaunt, Tom Riddle's mother, and Riddle's depicted as becoming very mad when he hears this (whilst having a flashback to his babyhood).
The reason I don't think this really counts is that it's a little too vague. Sure, he could be angry at the insult towards his mother, but more likely he's just mad at being reminded of her at all. It could also very much be a pride thing. Even with the possibility of him being angry at this insult, I don't think it's enough to discount him.
Conclusion?
Voldemort is Voldemort. I'd say he counts.
Edited by CJCroen1393 on Oct 10th 2019 at 3:32:56 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
How do other gorillas in the film's universe act when not under the serum?
Edited by username2527 on Oct 10th 2019 at 3:34:14 AM
It’s a movie about a scientist inventing an invisibility serum... gorillas aren’t the main focus and that’s the only one as I recall but given that the film explicitly attributes its aggression to the serum and makes note of change in Caine’s personality after he uses it, this seems to me to abuse how far we can go ignoring movie verse rules.
Yea to fanvid Voldemort.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Voldemort
The Draftsman of Doom
Fanfic!Voldemort.
I thought sharks were my friends.
Yay to Tom Riddle. Is there really a need to debate Sebastian Caine? The argument was originally about the kids.
RIP KissAnime.
Gentle Laborer
Canon!Voldy despises his parents, that flashback is definately not mitigating at all. to him.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Oct 10th 2019 at 7:58:37 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
to fanfic Voldemort
Yeah to Voldemort and Delphine, if I’ve watched a film and disagree with the light the arguments on a candidate were cast in, I’m WELL with in my rights to mention my concerns.
I thought sharks were my friends.
Apparantly I touched a nerve. Sorry.
RIP KissAnime.
Lord of Hell
I mean, I'd say bringing up Caine to see if he merits a cut is worth bringing up.
Gentle Laborer
If 43 watched the film and he concluded that the Psycho Serum affected Caine's personality, then yeah, we do need to revisit him.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Agreed. Fortunately, Bacon still has plenty of others.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yeah, the OP might have neglected a few pertinent details there.
That he does ACW but I'm not God either, if you disagree with my stance you're all free to do so.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Oh, I don't agree or disagree; I've not seen the film. Anyone got a link to the OP?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to Voldemort
The Draftsman of Doom
I wasn't there when Caine was discussed, was I?
In any case, I do think that he should be re-examined from the sounds of it.
Hey, I have an idea for a forum game where we effortpost obvious non-keeper monster candidates as a Joke, and I just want to run it by the thread to see if that idea is objectionable to anyone. I'd probably call it "April Fools Effortposts" or something of the sort. It would be in forum games, obviously.
Ok then, I guess I'll have to save my Joke EP's for PM's.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Oct 10th 2019 at 7:31:34 AM
Rawr.
Threads based upon other threads tend to be frowned upon and I really don't see the point.
I thought sharks were my friends.
That would get out of control quick.
RIP KissAnime.
Yes to Riddle.
I'll cut some slack on the locket thing because canon!Voldy never gave a damn about his mother and it seems vague enough.
Those kids seem like a non-keep. If the film says Saturn made them so imma say their agency's impaired.
43110's got a point about Hollow Face. This isn't like Scar getting dosed with evil poison when he was already bad and the effects of the poison being possible to resist. This is the film saying Caine was legitimately changed by the serum.
If we are accepting votes I say Cut.
Alright the film goes: Gorilla gets injected with serum, indicates it's jacked up its mental state, gorilla rips rat apart. Regardless of how gorillas act in real life, the film is taking a pretty damn clear stance on what the serum does to the psyche.