During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Jack
The wifi here sucks
Jack,. Not seeing what's making you doubt him counting.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yeah to Pelias and yes to Jack.
Edit: Also looking back at this Balagos... whatever that was, I'm saying no there, don't try pulling real life tragedies in effort to bulk up how bad a fictional villain looks and gonna back Lighty in saying that he was pointedly not out of line.
Edited by 43110 on Oct 9th 2019 at 9:16:10 AM
Jacky boy (funny enough I'm from Texas)
question: do the Harry Potter candidates also apply to the films? same with the Trunchbull
Yes to the Obersturmfuhrer, Asimov, Norcross, Sloan, Pelias, and Jack Angel.
No to Balagos, Oskar, and Vanessa.
Edited by falcontalons on Oct 9th 2019 at 6:30:35 AM
Carrot Clone
Pelias
While I obviously can't comment on Jack Angel (for obvious reasons), I just wanna pop in to say that the work has a trope page, and a novelization on Fictionpress.
Shameless plug, I know.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Oct 9th 2019 at 6:38:32 AM
"It doesn't matter anymore. You win. It is Duck Season."
Darkwing Goose
Jack
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Pelias
Jack Angel
Left Wing Anarchism. Libertarianism is associated with the Libertarian Right in USA, so that term for the ideology is rarely used in the West. Infamous for being either the Mary Sue of ideologies and/or a Strawman Loser in Political Games
Edited by KazuyaProta on Oct 9th 2019 at 10:15:50 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
isn't that all political ideologies?
Asimov, Maximillian, Sloan, Oskar, Pelias and Jack
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Balagos and Vanessa
The Draftsman of Doom
As for Balagos... Not.In.The.Slightest.
As a matter of fact, I think Lighty went too easy on Bootlebat; as far as I'm concerned, comparing real life atrocities committed by humans to the fictional actions of a big red fiery lizard in order to make certain arguments about how evil the reptile is supposed to be, is just as deplorable as demeaning The Holocaust by running ads about how eating meat is a "Holocaust on your plate" (mind you, "Holocaust on your Plate" offends me as a member of the Jewish Community, so I'm kind of biased). It doesn't fucking matter if a certain action of a fictional character kinda reminds you of a real life atrocity. The comparison is supposed to be between the actions of the villains of the setting/genre/franchise, and any other superfluous comparisons to real life atrocities are just blatantly insensitive.
This said, if I were to lay into you any worse than I already have, I may risk being thumped.
Now, before you make any other effortposts, I seriously implore you to consider the following:
- How do the actions of the villain stand out against the actions of the other villains in the setting? This means, what actions of theirs are worse, or at the very least, different, than those of other villains. In other words, if everyone in the setting is a killer or sexual predator, does the villain conduct vicious experiments on others, torture others, sell them to slavery, or in any other way stand out from the crowd?
- Were any of these actions based on real life atrocities? This means, do the villain's actions have basis in historical or (less likely) recent fact? If not, you have absolutely no business mentioning real life atrocities for the sake of comparison.
With All Due Respect, Bootlebat, you have to tread very lightly where real life atrocities are concerned, especially in this thread.
We all do, myself included.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Oct 10th 2019 at 11:39:06 AM
Rawr.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
@ papyru30 I feared that he wasn't heinous enough compared to the baseline, even though I thought that he was worth a look. Glad to see you disagree.
That being said, I've almost finished translating in English my 11k-long French one-shot. I'll tell you guys when I'm done. Then, I'll move on to... The evil photograph story. Already know how I'll write it.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
The Lord Of Walruses
to Pelis and Jack. Down to dnd guy and vanessa
RIP Toriyama
'Yes' to Jack.
These are way overdue, in part cuz of the flu and in part cuz of my own writing block lol but either way, my write-ups.
- DC Comics Bombshells:
- General Anton Arkayn is a Soviet general who uses Supergirl and Stargirl as his pawns in his quest for power. Throwing people by the hundreds into concentration camps for the most petty of reasons, Arkayn has Supergirl and Stargirl lead assaults on enemy troops with orders to kill even surrendering soldiers, threatening the lives of everyone in the girls' village if they resist. After trying to have Supergirl and Stargirl annihilate an entire concentration camp of his prisoners when he decides to clean house, Arkayn responds to their refusal by invading their home village and taking their parents at gun point, promising to execute them unless the girls allow Arkayn to dissect them alive and use their biology to create a supersoldier army and take over the world.
- Dr. Hugo Strange is a eugenicist obsessed with creating a "master race" of perfect individuals with whom he can replace humanity with. Traveling the world and coercing men and women who fit his criteria into becoming his lab rats, Strange responds to any resistance by either murdering or ruining the lives of his intended targets, children not being exempt from his cruelty. Though failing in an attempt to turn Gotham city into a testing ground, Strange takes policitcal prisoners from the Soviets and performs horrific experiments on them that turn them into howling monstrosities, who he later uses to massacre his enemies. Strange intends to commit genocide against the human race once his "perfect" army is completed, and even when his life is spared by Harley Quinn and Ivy, Strange repays them by trying to gun them down with a smile on his face.
- Uncharted: Golden Abyss: Roberto Guerro is an overthrown dictator from Panama who refuses to move on from his former seat of power, seeking to gather enough resources to launch a hostile war against his dissenters and re-take his position as ruler. An utter madman who subjects prisoners to torture and doesn't hesitate to murder his own men for the slightest errors, Guerro amasses more riches by kidnapping and ransoming men, women and children alike, murdering any of them whose ransoms are not paid. Guerro plans to find the treasure of the Golden Abyss and use it to fund his warmongering, completely aware and uncaring that the gold is radioactive and could kill countless people once he floods the marketplaces of the world with it.
Imma throw my hat in and say Lighty was right about Balagos and was not out of line to get angry.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Kaz, thing is, I'm a libertarian (small-l; I'm not a member of the party), which is why "libertarian socialist" puzzled me. (We're not on the left OR the right BTW.)
Anyway, yes to Jack. I understand what you mean about being desensitized though...that tends to happen. It's like "Oh, this guy only killed 5 children? That's NOTHING." ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Will he go to Other Media (since it's a screenplay) or Lit (for the novelization)?
nwotyzal: Yes they do. It's just that they're not different enough to get their own film entry. The only reason Anton Chigurh is on both film and lit is because the film is SO much more known (Adaptation Displacement). Any other works like that can probably go to both as well, if there are any.
Edited by ACW on Oct 10th 2019 at 3:41:33 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Jack
Gentle Laborer
Boys, it's best if we avoid discussing politics here
Jack
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Oct 10th 2019 at 5:44:50 AM
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
@ ACW Going with Web Original since the novelization was published on FictionPress and the screenplay was released on DeviantArt.
A wise statement.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Oct 10th 2019 at 10:57:31 AM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Web Original it shall be then.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Hey, just saying that the YMMV page for Echo has been edited by someone adding examples without going through here first.
