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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

AgeOfTropeEmpire Handsome Head of Hyperion Since: Nov, 2018
Handsome Head of Hyperion
#184651: Sep 26th 2019 at 10:56:17 AM

Alright, with the go-ahead, here's my Borderlands proposal.

What's the work?

Borderlands 3 is the latest release in the popular Gearbox loot-shooter franchise. Based primarily on the wasteland planet of Pandora, the stories follow a group of treasure seekers called "Vault Hunters", and their quests to find the legendary sealed Vaults around Pandora, face down the Vault Guardian monsters that guard them, and take the treasure inside for themselves.

After the fall of Handsome Jack and his corporation Hyperion, a new group rises out of the ashes to begin plaguing Pandora, known as the Children of the Vault. Here are its leaders.

Who are the Calypso twins? What have they done?

Tyreen and Troy Calypso are the twin-sibling leaders of the Children of the Vault cult based on Pandora. Born the children of the legendary Vault Hunter named Typhon DeLeon, the duo were Conjoined Twins until Troy was surgically removed from Tyreen to save both their lives. Due to Tyreen being one of the powerful female beings in the universe known as Sirens, Troy was granted a portion of her abilities, and is forced to syphon energy out of her to keep himself alive.

Regaled by their father with tales of his exploits as a Vault Hunter, yet kept on the sole world of Nekrotafeyo by their parents who wanted a quiet life now, Tyreen killed their mother one day, and later the twins left the planet, intent on taking the galaxy by storm and making up for time "lost" on Nekrotafeyo by becoming gods.

Founding the Children of the Vault cult on Pandora, Tyreen and Troy turn the planet into even more of a murder-based nightmare than it already was, promoting mass torture and murder in her followers, hosting "livescreams" of people being tortured to death, and all while Tyreen routinely drains the life energy out of friend and foe alike to sate her hunger for energy while sharing some with Troy, even sometimes ordering her own fanatics to maim themselves in their name.

After becoming ECH Onet sensations, the Calypsos begin seeking out the legendary Vaults for themselves, sending their Children of the Vault across the galaxy on a murder spree and sparking war on a variety of planets in search of Vaults, while the Calypsos make a deal with the Sun Smasher gang on Pandora, promising them power and wealth in exchange for a Vault map. Though the Sun Smashers keep their end, when they want money for their own and not to become servants of the Calypsos, Tyreen and Troy slaughter them all, keeping some of them barely alive and in VR torture units for fun.

Tyreen and Troy ally with the psychopathic Katagawa Jr. and his corporation Maliwan, fully endorsing and backing his war with rival corporation Atlas on the planet of Promethea, with the twins promising to murder Katagawa's remaining siblings for him in exchange for his resources. When Katagawa is killed, the Calypsos mock him for dying, and quickly move on.

Later, the siblings reveal why they are seeking Vaults, so as to drain the life energy out of the legendary Vault Monsters that guard them, as the monsters are immensely powerful and will help the twins grow in strength. Having already drained the Siren Lilith of her powers, Tyreen and Troy confront the Siren Maya and her apprentice Ava, with Tyreen grabbing and beginning to strangle Ava.

When Maya tries to take Troy hostage, Troy freaks out and accidentally begins draining Maya's Siren powers. Realizing that he's capable of draining the powers of any Siren and not just small portions his sister's, Troy finishes the job and drains Maya to such a point that she crumbles into dust and dies, before the two leave and continue their Vault seeking.

After allying with Aurelia Hammerlock and assisting her in trying to murder her own brother, draining more Vault Monsters along the way, Tyreen and Troy returns to Pandora and reveal their master goal is to open the immense "Great Vault" on Pandora and release the most dangerous Vault Monster of them all, the Destroyer, a being capable of devouring entire stars.

Troy, realizing that Pandora's moon is the "key" to unlock the Great Vault, uses Maya's powers boosted by an immense supply of Eridium to begin dragging the moon out of orbit, planning to crash it into Pandora and open the Great Vault, uncaring that it will wipe out the planet and the billions on it, and Tyreen happily goes along with this plan.

When the Player Character destroys Troy's supply of Eridium to try to inhibit his plans, Troy begins forcinly draining Tyreen of her Siren powers and even life force, shrugging off her screams of agony and pleads and warning her to "not die on me now."

Troy is eventually taken down, but a weakly Tyreen manages to crawl to his body and drain his entire powers and life force, reducing him to dust and empowering her once more. Continuing to call down Pandora's Moon, Tyreen tries to murder Lilith, Ava and the Player Character, though they escape.

When the Player Character heads to Nekrotafeyo to meet up with Typhon DeLeon for information on how to stop Tyreen, Tyreen sends her Children of the Vault to murder the Player Character and Typhon. After her forces fail, Tyreen herself arrives and gets into a fight with her father, rejecting his attempts at pleading with her to stop her insane quest and attempts to appeal to her as her father, culminating in Typhon trying to blow himself and Tyreen up with a grenade. Tyreen survives and redirects the explosion entirely onto Typhon, killing her father while she returns to the Great Vault.

Proclaiming her intention to absorb the Destroyer's power and then travel the universe and extinguish all other stars and life in the universe until she's "the only star left in the sky," Tyreen merges with the Destroyer and tries to murder the Player Character, but is ultimately killed for good and the Siren powers she stole returned to their rightful owners.

Do the Calypsos have a Freudian Excuse or other mitigating factors?

The twins' "excuse" is extremely flimsy. They were raised by Typhon, who told them stories of his adventures across the galaxy and longed to go on similar adventures, but Typhon tried his best to keep them on Nekrotafeyo. The twins considered the boring planet a "prison," and eventually fled after Tyreen killed their mother (whether this was intentional or not is never stated, as it is only brought up by Troy in a mocking manner). Typhon admits that he wasn't an amazing dad, but also says that he did his best to care for his kids and gave them "what I could." When he confronts Tyreen, we get this dialogue before she kills him:

Tyreen: "You scared old man, this is your fault! You kept us here when the universe should have been ours!"

Typhon: "I gave you what I could."

Tyreen: "I don't care. I'm gonna take what's mine."

Tyreen and Troy are established as always having wanted power and to be gods, and their feelings that their father kept them "caged" circles around to show that he was merely trying to protect them from themselves and the universe from them because they wanted to be gods. Tyreen coldly, remorselessly executing her father even after he appeals to her only further shows that she's a monster.

As for mitigating factors, none exist for either twin except one. They claim the Children of the Vault are their "family" yet routinely torture and murder them for laughs, they betray all of their allies, have no visible standards or Pet the Dog moments, and though, like many things in the franchise, they are Laughably Evil, it doesn't at all detract from their monstrousness.

The one thing in question, however, is their relationship with each other. The twins have much playful banter with each other, and Tyreen literally keeps her brother alive by allowing him to leech off of her energy from time to time. However, there is more to the twins than meets the eye, as they both routinely step on the other's toes to be in the spotlight, Tyreen often says that victory and power will soon be "hers", with an annoyed Troy having to remind her it will be both of theirs, later flipped as Troy reveals his plans to become the sole leader of the Children of the Vault, Tyreen beginning to vocally and annoyingly ponder why she's kept her brother alive all these years, and it comes to a head near the end of the game.

When the Player Character cuts off Troy's Eridium supply, Troy begins forcibly draining Tyreen of her life force. Tyreen goes from grudging compliance to screaming in pain and shouting "Stop, you're gonna kill me!", to which Troy merely angrily replies "We're almost there, don't you DARE quit on me now!" Troy is eventually beaten, and his last words before dying are muttering "Ty...we were...so close..."

Meanwhile, Tyreen, upon seeing Troy is dead, but has nonetheless locked Pandora's moon on its course, smirks and remarks "You did it, Troy. Now lets finish this together." before draining him and reducing him to ash. Following this, Tyreen rarely mentions Troy, even mockingly bringing up his death just to taunt their father by saying "Troy's dead, by the way. Sooooo sit on that." By the end, she's simply remarking she's going to "take what's mine", and never shows a single ounce of sadness or regret that Troy died.

Troy is a tough case, because while he was forcibly draining Tyreen despite her screams of protest, he also didn't seem to think it would go so far as to kill her, and his last words telling her that they were so close shows a possible real connection he felt with her.

Tyreen, though, doesn't have this problem. She shows a minor bit of sentiment, saying "let's finish this together" before stealing all of Troy's energy and powers, but after this never brings him up again except to torment their father, instead completely embracing the idea of being "the only star shining" in the galaxy.

Are the Calypsos sufficiently heinous?

Yes. Even for Borderlands, the twins pass all boundaries, engaging in mass torture and murder across the galaxy, not just Pandora, and have plenty of personal evil to them as well.

Tyreen is the worst of the two, as she reveals her intent to devour all the stars across the galaxy and extinguish countless lives, but given Troy never got to that point and he was the one who came up with the idea to crash Pandora's moon into the planet, he has his own evilness to him.

Final Verdict?

Troy is more debatable, so I'm going to abstain on him at the moment, but I give Tyreen a [tup]. She is a cruel, sadistic monster whose Freudian Excuse doesn't explain what she does, she actively rejects her father's attempts to make amends just because she wants power, and her being revealed as an Omnicidal Maniac at the end pushes her past the brink of heinousness.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#184652: Sep 26th 2019 at 11:08:42 AM

Yes to both of them.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
PureGrainAlkaSeltzer The Lord Of Walruses from 1200 Pennsylvania Ave Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
The Lord Of Walruses
#184653: Sep 26th 2019 at 11:10:08 AM

[tup] to Calypso twins

I have no idea what I am doing
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#184654: Sep 26th 2019 at 11:12:27 AM

I'm saying yes to Tyreen but unfortunately I don't think I will have a same feelings for Troy. I agree that the last moments of him can bug me a lot for his qualification but eh... If he goes up, then I'm cool with it.

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Sep 26th 2019 at 11:12:54 AM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#184655: Sep 26th 2019 at 11:16:03 AM

Weak [tup] to Troy Calypso, but a much stronger and definite [tup] to Tyreen Calypso.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#184656: Sep 26th 2019 at 11:21:46 AM

Definite [tup] for Tyreen, but a weak [tup] for Troy. It's so weird for Borderlands to have a CM, probably because of how wacky the previous entries are.

It's Spooky Month!
KingofNightmares Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#184657: Sep 26th 2019 at 11:21:52 AM

[tup] Tyreen. Not sure about Troy though. Funny, my brother was talking about Borderlands with me earlier today

"It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times?"
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#184659: Sep 26th 2019 at 11:43:34 AM

[tup] Tyreen, abstain on Troy. Why didn't Handsome Jack count again?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#184660: Sep 26th 2019 at 11:44:26 AM

[tup]Tyreen and uh sure to Troy.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#184661: Sep 26th 2019 at 11:49:25 AM

@ACW

Love of his daughter

[tup] the Twins.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
AgeOfTropeEmpire Handsome Head of Hyperion Since: Nov, 2018
Handsome Head of Hyperion
#184662: Sep 26th 2019 at 11:52:32 AM

@ACW: Jack genuinely cared for his daughter, Angel, and as Borderlands 3 reveals, he deeply loved his wife as well, and the day Angel accidentally killed her was Jack's major Start of Darkness.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#184663: Sep 26th 2019 at 12:11:46 PM

I forgot to ask. The current version of Crayak's quote in Complete Monster is a tad bare bones

"I play the game of Genocide"
Crayak, Animorphs

Wanna swicth up to the full version

Crayak: I reversed the effects of your meddling. The Mamathisk reverted to cannibalism when they experienced repeated crop failures. A plant parasite. Impossible for them to stop. But as you know, cannibalism is a losing adaptation. The Mamathisk are effectively extinct.
The Ellimist: Are you mad?!
Crayak: No, I don't think so, Ellimist. I'm just a gamer. Like you. But with a perhaps a different philosophy: I don't play the game to save the species, but to annihilate it. I play the game of genocide.
Animorphs - The Ellimist Chronicles

Edited by miraculous on Sep 26th 2019 at 12:14:04 PM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
KingofNightmares Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#184665: Sep 26th 2019 at 12:23:27 PM

Going to say yes on Tyreen. Troy is a more hard case, but with what he was saying it seems more that he meant that she'd be no use to him dead rather than anything truly sentimental.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#184667: Sep 26th 2019 at 12:33:44 PM

[tup] Black.

[tup] Rhodes.

[tup] The Twins.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#184668: Sep 26th 2019 at 12:37:55 PM

[tup] Rhodes, Twins.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#184672: Sep 26th 2019 at 1:07:33 PM

[tup] to Tyreen (yay, female CM), and maybe [tup] to Trey.

Also, [tup] to fucking Monikammmmmmm, aka Monika. Man, it feels weird to say that, especially considering how hard I fell for her (yeah, I know she is dangerous, and I am not blind to that, but still).

Edited by MasterN on Sep 26th 2019 at 3:06:07 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
randomtroper89 from The Fire Nation Since: Nov, 2010
#184673: Sep 26th 2019 at 1:54:43 PM

  • The Skin Taker from In The Cove is a mysterious creature that lures children to their doom. He lures the girl into going to his ship and to his cove, keeping her enthralled with his magic. At the cove the girl hears a cacophony of screams and begs the Skin Taker not to "take my own". The Skin Taker then boasts about how he will "grind your skin" to "make them into clothes" and other finding "your remains scattered on the beach".

Also [tup] for Monika.

Edited by randomtroper89 on Sep 26th 2019 at 4:08:57 AM

ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#184674: Sep 26th 2019 at 2:07:53 PM

[tup] Calypchos, [tup]Skin Taker, [tup] Black, [tup] Rhodes, [tup] The Twins....but I refuse to dignify that song's version of Monika with a vote. (There's Alternative Character Interpretation and then there's just flat out rewriting a character and missing the entire point of them entirely. just bugs me )

[down] And yes, I know it's not a case of intentional bashing, but there are just some character reimaginings that I find needless 'cause they go against the essential core of the characters. (Example: Damn near everything Frank Miller has ever written for DC Comics characters. tongue )

Still awaiting Scraggle with the Duck Tales candidate. The Moonvasion happened two weeks ago, didn't it?

Edited by ANewMan on Sep 26th 2019 at 2:18:28 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#184675: Sep 26th 2019 at 2:12:55 PM

I mean, I get why you'd be upset, but this is not a case of the author bashing the character.

Anyway, [tup] Rhodes.

Edited by AustinDR on Sep 26th 2019 at 2:14:32 AM


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