During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
I agree with the new rules. The first one should be obvious, but apparently it's not. And the second rule is something that needs to be implemented at this point. I remember a while back some straight up said "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone who counts, except those who don't." And I damn near wanted to smack that person.
I've said this many times now: you do not have to vote. You do not have to comment if you don't want to. We all know that people are busy and have stuff to deal with in their personal lives. You are not offending anybody or being a burden to this thread by not voting or saying anything. Just because you don't vote on certain candidates doesn't imply you don't care about all the work the person doing the effortpost put into it. Saying " to those who count" when you clearly didn't read all the effortposts is annoying and that is a burden. Because you're basically saying even candidates who don't count for automatic disqualifying reasons apparently count.
I've barely voted on anybody in this thread for about two weeks now, and I barely say anything here unless I got a new EP. That does not mean I don't want to contribute. But I have more paramount things going on in my life and I cannot drop everything I'm doing just to vote on some villains on a forum for nerds.
That's fine, but personally I'd prefer if someone abstains because they genuinely don't know if someone counts as a CM or not. If someone doesn't have time to read an EP and/or just doesn't care, there's no need to say anything.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
to Guigoz and Heart
Gentle Laborer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
And as always, Tyk gets a ![[awesome]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/minis/award_star_gold_3.png "[awesome]"){kind=small}
Shadar of Demon Legacy's tally:
Yes: Keshali, Irrose, The Almighty King Prawn, Pure Grain Alka Seltzer (ind.), nwotyzal (ind.), G-Editor (ind.), The Immortal Angel Newton, Austin DR, Fried Warthog, Kylotrope, Demon Duckof Doom
No: Libraryseraph, 43110, miraculous, The Mad Cr0w, falcontalons, Scraggle, Lightysnake, Bullman, Elfen Lied Fan 90, Polar Phantom
Abstain/Undecided: ACW, Sky Cat 32, Imperial Majesty XO, Cloister The Stupid, Georgie Enkoom, Overlord
Yes: 11, No: 10, Abstain/Undecided: 6
So, he doesn't go up. DL has enough entries anyway.
Koala is also a cut.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Showtime!
to Guigoz, heart and Dredd (glad you found those books)
Darkwing Goose
Heart
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Sure to Heart, Dredd and Guigoz (I read those E Ps so don't worry)
Anyways, as for the new rules...I kind of support it especially for the first one. Yeah, I don't tolerate any form of plagiarism with the exception of self-plagiarism, that one...I'm A-OK with it since I found that term (self-plagiarism) to be stupid and if a user had their own EP in other websites or drafts, I can understand it why they copied a bit. So yeah, I support this rule although the only form of plagiarism that I'm A-OK with is self-plagiarism. (Oh boy, I still have a huge rant for this term of plagiarism that could escalate into off-topic)
As for the second rule? I honestly could go either way but I don't blame you guys to implement this type of rule. I can understand where you coming from and I'm guilty of this comment either because either my laziness or the thread's moving fast like Flash. But yeah, I could see the effect on why this type of vote is getting annoying especially when I have a hard time on making a tally for Overseer of Schicksal as a result so yeah... I don't blame you guys to implement this type of rule and I can also see where Tyk's coming from as you don't need to vote for other candidates. The only downside is probably since the candidates needs "5 votes" to be approved or rejected...Yea.
Even then, I'm okay with these rules getting implemented especially the first one (I'm giving self-plagiarism a bit of leeway here because f*** that term) and I could go either way on the second one but leaning yes.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Also...
Gears of War 5? We're cutting Queen Myrrah. Her backstory is genuinely horrific. She was innocent, experimented upon tortuously until she lost it, and was turned into a horrific misanthrope. And there's the strong indication she loved her daughter until she was taken from her.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Cut Myrrah then.
With all the poorly done Sudden mitigating factors we've seen, I'm curious how do you think the reveal of her Backstory was handled? Was it more like Madame Satan from Sabrina where it actually helped her Charachter?
Things are really about to get Fun around here
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Yeah...Cut Myrrah then. Which reminds me...Here's the belated Honkai Impact 3rd writeups:
- Honkai Impact 3rd: Despite it's lighthearted tone, Honkai Impact has its fair share of villains. However, these are the most irredeemable and monstrous ones whether are they humans or Herrschers:
- The 12th Herrscher, better known as Herrscher of the Erosion, is a condescending self-aware virus who views living beings as nothing but toys for her to play. Planning to create a plague kingdom for herself, she bodyjacks an innocent girl named Higokumaru while spreading a lethal plague that kills millions of people and resulted on Higokumaru horrifically executed by the scientists of Fire Moth Organization. Escaping from Higokumaru, the Herrscher then hacked Fire Moth's nuclear missile while attacking the last bastion of humanity. Escaping from her confinement in 15th century, Erosion then spread Black Death pandemic which killed 1/3 of the population before being sealed by Kallen Kaslana. When she arrived at Japan, Erosion attempts to manipulate a village maiden named Yae Sakura while cursing her village which resulted on said village using child sacrifices to defend themselves while Erosion basks on their agony before trying to slaughter them while possessing Yae. When the clone of Kallen, Theresa Apocalypse, is being defeated by another Herrscher, Erosion attempts to bite her throat while unconscious and is also revealed to torment Yae by mentally tortures the latter and also order Yae to kill Theresa. Being sealed again, Erosion then attempts to wreck havoc on the artificial world by turning all of the villagers of Yae village into zombies and after being defeated, Erosion bodyjacks her vessel again as a last resort to destroy humanity.
- The Great Overseer of Schicksal is the first leader of Schicksal Organization. Initially presented as a benevolent figure helping several European Princes creating a feudal order and stopping the Houkai in order to take back the lost lands that the latter conquered, the Overseer reveals his true power hungry nature by performing experiments on innocent civilians to turn them into zombies or monsters and kickstarting a war with the Ming Empire. Losing the war, the Overseer extorted the money from poor civilians and allowed his priests and aristocrats to abuse the population as they pleased. Attempting to start a war with Ming Empire again, the Overseer opens thea purple box that contains Herrscher of the Erosion who started the Black Death.
Anyways, for Great Overseer, I got help by my friend to modify it so no issue here. As for the positioning of the main page... ~ACW Well, yes...Erosion did appear in the game via Samsaras but the supplementary materials help her character development. Overseer of Schicksal only appears in mangas and Honkai Chronicles videos so if you ask me? I guess you could put them in both Video Game and Ani Manga survey. Thoughts?
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Sep 21st 2019 at 2:29:44 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Oh goody, yet another CM who gets woobified out of nowhere. Ugh.
Anyway, as someone who was guilty of throwing out a few "Yes to everyone" votes (Albeit, I made sure I wasn't upvoting clear non-qualifiers) I approve of the new ban on them. I honestly made those votes out of fear of ignoring a good effortpost but it's not like this is much better.
EDIT: Speaking of cutting CM's, I'm currently replaying the Batman Arkham games (And playing Knight for the first time) and am having some doubts on Firefly counting. I'll share my thoughts once I beat Knight and see if I change my mind, but I don't really think he stands out among the general heinous standard of the series.
Edited by FriedWarthog on Sep 21st 2019 at 7:32:44 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
As we discussed? Cut Myrrah.
Cut the queen!
I swore there was already ancillary material that dove into this well ahead of time—I know Myrrah was challenged numerous times under the rule of compromising factors found in spin-offs, though I can't remember exactly what those spin-offs were.
Anyway, axe Myrrah. I was going to have another Nightside candidate, but, mm, reevaluation makes me think she's not really characterized enough in comparison to the operation she runs (i.e. "Precious Memories," a business that specializes in the industrialized raping and torturing of children—as young as four years old—to death, creating recorded, lucid "memories" of these horrific butcheries, and selling them to the pleasure of sadists who want to "live in" that moment). Since it's Cr0w's birthday tomorrow, I'm going to appropriately squeeze in the next from Secret Histories, that being Crow Lee, and maybe see about a Kamen Rider candidate, too.
Edited by Scraggle on Sep 21st 2019 at 8:38:23 AM
So, I've been reading through Firestarter and I have to say, even though he's mentioned for the Made-for-TV Sci-Fi movie, Novel!Rainbird is even more of a monster than his film counterpart ever could be. Rainbird is one of the best King villains, he is also complex enough to make Love to Hate the bastard.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Hmmmm yeah...Speaking of cut characters, there's one of my old candidates that I want to bring for re-evaluation if he truly stacks with the genre he's presented in. But I'll save that for later.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Dredd, Guigoz, Heart
I approve of Lighty's proposed rules.
Siiiiiiiiiiiip
I know I don't really vote much. Apologies for that. I'm so busy with other stuff that focusing is hard. But if I remember right, if somebody doesn't vote, that's by default abstaining anyway(and thus, their vote wouldn't be relevant for the tally), so it's no big deal.
Also, yes to Lighty's new rules. Those are really good and feel like common sense too.
...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
So, funny story, I've been reading Simon Spurrier's X-Force run because from synopses I thought the initial Arc Villain might be a good candidate - a Russian munitions baron named Mr. Volga who's decided to get into the mutant slave trade. However, I decided against it for two reasons - one, he has a lot less onscreen presence than I realized, which really hurts his chances due to the astronomical standard set by more longstanding mutant users and abusers - someone like Sinister or Pierce would probably have about 300 different ways of snuffing Volga out like a gnat. And there's also the matter of, how should I put this...
He's Borat.
Swear to Mutant Jesus, this guy is Supervillain Borat. As in, I'll eat an entire Anglican cathedral if the reference wasn't intentional. He even has a mankini! He's certainly a memorable antagonist, but I'm sorry, I can't be afraid of Borat, nor in good conscience can I EP Borat.
Just thought I'd share that amusing anecdote.
The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
HT: Thanks for that lighthearted aside. A shame that mutant-hating Borat didn't count, but them's the breaks I guess.
Speaking of Marvel CM's, along with Master Mold I'm actually thinking of giving Mister Hyde another look. I know someone effortposted him a while ago only to retract it thanks to having a redeeming quality in one story... but given the Depending on the Writer rule for comic CM's I wonder if him being disqualified holds water since he's usually a petty thug at best and a surprisingly sociopathic, sadistic monster at worst in his appearances.
Edited by FriedWarthog on Sep 21st 2019 at 8:48:51 AM
Yes blow Myrrah out of the sky. Scraggle is right, there are materials that touched on this before that got ignored for not being in the game.
I thought sharks were my friends.
Cut Myrrah
RIP KissAnime.
Yes to the Heart and Guigoz.
Also I do not want to seem like I am begging, but I wonder if anyone else wants to weigh in on Dr. Dredd. I just do not want him to get lost in the shuffle:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=7356#comment-183884
I also have some Star Trek villains I can propose, but I wonder if I should wait on them for a bit. I do not know if people want more proposals so quickly after a couple of others.
Edited by Overlord on Sep 21st 2019 at 6:09:50 AM