During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Ah man, I screwed up. Double-checked; Great Leader came two years before Sosai X.
Sorry.
I've been watching a lot of episodes of Murdoch Mysteries lately, and I think I've come across at least one keeper:
What's the work?
Murdoch Mysteries is a Canadian police procedural set in Victorian-era Toronto. The series follows Detective William Murdoch, who uses forensic techniques that are decades ahead of his time to solve murders.
Who is Cecily McKinnon? What has she done?
Introduced in the season 8 two-part premiere "On the Waterfront", McKinnon appears to be a woman who assumed control of her husband's shipping business after his death, exploiting her benign appearance and societal preconceptions about women to keep herself beneath suspicion. In reality, she ruthlessly controls the Toronto waterfront through her Co-Dragons, the psychopathic O'Shea brothers. The O'Shea's, acting on McKinnon's behalf, extort and harrass business owners, resorting to threats and brutal violence when people refuse to pay, and controlling the waterfront through fear and threats of violence.
When Inspector Brackenreid, Murdoch's Boisterous Bruiser boss, investigates the situation on the waterfront, McKinnon has the O'Shea's brutally attack him (the assault takes place in the season 7 finale), even showing up herself to watch the assault, leaving Brackenreid for dead (McKinnon later admits that she assumed Brackenreid was dead when she left; this was definitely attempted murder, not just a message). As Brackenreid recovers, McKinnon sends the O'Shea's to his home to implicitly threaten Brackenreid's wife and children.
McKinnon is also in the human trafficking business, bringing in at least nine women from Hungary and keeping them shackled in an abandoned warehouse to await sale. When a fellow businessperson, Richard Dawkins, finds out about this, he tries to save at least some of the women, managing to free two of them, hiding one away while the other tries to flee. The one who escapes is recaptured and drowned by the O'Shea's.
Dawkins intends to go to the police, but first assembles some of the other business owners from the dock to warn them of what's going on. Since McKinnon is one of the people he alerts, Dawkins ends up being beaten to death by the O'Shea's in front of his associates and wife. In the subsequent investigation of Dawkins' death, McKinnon does everything she can to use the late Dawkins as a fall guy for her own crimes. As Murdoch's investigation and Brackenreid's extralegal hunt for justice lead them closer to the truth, McKinnon murders the O'Shea's to tie up loose ends, planting a pin she took from Brackenreid after his beating in an attempt to frame him.
Brackenreid eventually deduces McKinnon's culpability and confronts her, intending to execute her after getting a confession. McKinnon tries to shoot Brackenreid with a hidden revolver, but he wounds her. Murdoch arrives, having prevented the captive women from being shipped off to Chicago. Although Brackenreid is hard-pressed to think of a reason to spare McKinnon's life (even devout Catholic, Ideal Hero, and consummate Nice Guy Murdoch can't think of any reason not to just shoot her), he instead chooses to allow Murdoch to arrest her, bringing McKinnon's reign of terror to an end.
Heinousness?
The majority of the villains on this show are murderers, and even most of the worse ones rarely exceed two or three victims. Compared to the series' other current CM, James Gillies, McKinnon holds up pretty well; Gillies was a sadistic psychopath with a fixation on Murdoch, whereas McKinnon embarks on multiple crimes that are unique to her, with the human trafficking being particularly heinous.
Mitigating factors?
Not a one that's mentioned. Even McKinnon herself doesn't bother trying to justify her actions as having any motive beyond greed. She's equally bereft with regards to redeeming qualities, showing no remorse for her crimes or any concern for others that doesn't turn out to be faked. The closest we get is a few scenes where she flirts with Murdoch, but even that is implied to just be McKinnon playing into her persona of a harmless woman.
Conclusion?
Unique crimes, no redeeming qualities, and pretty nasty by the show's standards? Big ol' keeper.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Sure there to Mc Kinnon.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
McKinnon.
A character named "Richard Dawkins" gets brutally killed? Deliberate Take That!?
Yes to McKinnon. I've got a few more to slash off the to-do... not bothering with the settings for these as they're all pretty cut-and-paste.
First is Blood for Blood, aka Midnight Man, another action-B featuring Lorenzo Lamas as Kang, a half-Cambodian super-warrior advised by Mako. Our candidate is Prince Samarki.
Who is Samarki?
Chief assassin of the Cambodian mafia, led by the honorable mafioso Mao Mak, Samarki has no care for the sentiment and honor of his brothers, demonstrating his intent by viciously cutting the throat of a failed man in front of the man's uncle (who pleads for him to be spared, and Samarki obliges before faking him out: "I shall be merciful... and make it quick!"). A ruthless, ambitious hitman and warlord, Samarki is unleashed to start killing off LAPD cops and accomplishes his job with brutal efficiency: torturing and killing an officer before cutting the throat of the innocent prostitute who witnesses it; murdering two officers in a boxing ring; stabbing one cop to death then using his gun to kill another; and finally murdering Lang's best friend by snapping his neck. Samarki eventually deposes and kills Mao Mak himself, capturing and threatening to murder Lang's wife and young daughter before they engage in a final sword fight and Samarki is hung with his own rope.
Any mitigating factors?
Nuh-uh.
Next... Duck pointed me to this. A rather bit Batman character first introduced in Black Canary/Oracle and killed off there before light on his activities is shown in Robin: Year One... leader of the nation of Rhe(e)lasia, Generalissimo Singh Manh Lee.
Who is Generalissimo Lee?
Tinpot dictator, President for life, and sleazy politician, Lee doesn't reaaaally seem like much until Robin is sent to investigate a slew of disappearances, and finds Jervis Tetch, aka the Mad Hatter, in connection to them. See, Lee has a "little secret"—he's a pedophile with a liking for little girls, making a regular practice of "getting to know" his young victims, and in this case, he's paid Mad Hatter to round up almost a dozen little girls that have been rendered utterly servile by Mad Hatter's headsets, allowing them to become his perfect little sex slaves. Lee orders anyone trying to hamper it killed, and when Tetch is defeated, Lee smugly rubs his diplomatic immunity in front of everyone's face, even letting his second-in-command fall into the hands of the police while he stays untouched.
...and then he's blown up in the opening of Black Canary/Oracle. Tough luck.
Any mitigating factors?
Okay, really, really minor villain here, buuut... even if Mad Hatter wins no points whatsoever for helping with this, running a sex slave kidnapping ring to slake his pedophile lust is a pretty nasty opening for one of Robin's first missions. For a bit character, I think he keeps.
Last, but not least, part of a collab with Lighty... yet another Nyarlathotep, part of another duo from some songs! This one comes from a recent (from about last month) song from a heavy metal band called The Great Old Ones, titled simply "Nyarlathotep."
Who is Nyarlathotep?
A question that's long gotten old on this thread, Nyarly is as he always is: soul of the Outer Gods, messenger of Azathoth, sadistic god who dicks with humanity for his own amusement. The song describes him as he seduces and manipulates men, steering them beyond reason and driving them to insanity... he is "the scourge, the wounds, the purge who brings the final dooms; the plague of mental madness, the peddler of total sadness." The "eyes of the Black Pharaoh" silence the conscience and rationality of the narrator, as well as the crowd Nyarly has swept up, until finally Nyarlathotep opens the gates to the Outer Gods and ushers in the end:
Forgotten lands with weedy spires of gold
The ground was cleft, and mad auroras rolled
Down on the quaking citadels of man
Then, crushing what he chanced to mould in play
The idiot chaos blew earth's dust away
Any mitigating factors?
Pretty rich as far as Nyarlathotep songs go. Anything that personifies him as more a character than a force wins points in my book, and the song is as true to Nyarly's fundamentals as they've ever been. I think he cuts it here.
And that's all. Thoughts, all?
Edited by Scraggle on Sep 17th 2019 at 10:49:22 AM
And all are a yea
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Yep to Samarki and Nyarly. Great job you guys!
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Mine? Is from Dream Theater's Dark Eternal Night....Nyarlathotep? The usual.
Drifting beyond all time
Out of the churning sky
Drawn to the beckoning light
Of the dark eternal night
Black forces
Rage in a vortex, fighting
Rays of destruction swallowing
The echo of the universe
I am the last
Born of the blood of the pharaohs
The ultimate god of my creation
Sent to unleash this curse
Restless crowds draw near
Nameless hooded forms appear
(Amidst fallen ruins
Grotesque creatures battle)
Shadowed on a screen
Yellow evil faces leer
(Vacant monuments
Corpses of dead worlds left behind)
Drifting beyond all time
Out of a churning sky
Drawn to the beckoning light
Of the dark eternal night
Trapped in a hellish dream
Spinning past worlds unseen
And frightfully vanishing
Into the dark eternal night
Drifting beyond all time
Out of a churning sky
Drawn to the beckoning light
Of the dark eternal night
Trapped in a hellish dream
Spinning past worlds unseen
And frightfully vanishing
Into the dark eternal night
So, yeah...in a word? Nyarlathotep is our usual. The black Pharaoh out of space and time, descending to bring ruin across the cosmos, summoning monsters, trapping people in black nightmares, laying waste to entire worlds, that he leaves behind as corpses, and enacting his evils over all existence.
And, of course, unleashing the dark curse of the Outer Gods.
I mean, it's as you expect. He's pure evil as you can imagine, causing mass death and destruction on cosmic scales with zero mitigating or redeeming qualities. Think we have a pass here.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Scrag’s grabbag and Everyone’s favorite Eldritch horror.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Sep 17th 2019 at 9:57:52 AM
"No running in the halls!"
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Oh yes to other Nyarly too and Lee. Man, while the E Ps are short, it's still interesting to read
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Mc Kinnon, Samarki, Lee, Nyarly and Nyarly
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Nyarly and Nyarly, or Nyarly and Nyarly?
Mc Kinnon, Lee, and Nyarly
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Sure to Samarki, Generalissomo Lee, Nyarlathotep and Nyarlathotep again.
Currently reading Mohamed Toihiri's La République des imberbes (finally got it after months of waiting ; I kinda wished it was my first EP), a Comorian (Got to respect my origins and country after all) French-language book. I think we may have one or two candidates to discuss later.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
The wifi here sucks
the two people on this page
Oh yeah, what happened with the Dora The Explorer film? I know it is a bitter topic here just asking.
Take a wild guess, Username. That's all we need to say on that.
Lizzid people!
It goes without saying what happened to it.
Samarki and the Nyarly(s).
Edited by AustinDR on Sep 17th 2019 at 11:08:44 AM
I thought sharks were my friends.
Yay to the new proposals.
RIP KissAnime.
Goku Black
All of the above.
Man, Nyarly's got a lot of incarnations that count. I think he's now tied with Jack the Ripper in third place on the incarnations per character page. Speaking of which, Satan should be at 40 by the time the year ends. Anyway, I've got a version of Frollo from the Dark Romance games to propose soon. After that, I'll finish checking out the others. Then I'll check out these other works I've found. Sometime, by the end of the year at the latest, Michaelthehero 21 and I will bring back the King Malbert discussion to conclude it. We've saved the votes from the previous discussion before it got shelved.
jjj
Scraggle and Lightysnake's stuff and Killbus and Cecily
All recent examples
Killbus (and now I can't stop picturing someone killing a bus), McKinnon, Samarki, Lee and both Nyarlys.
Abstain on whoever I missed.
RIP KissAnime.