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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#182176: Sep 9th 2019 at 3:03:07 AM

[tup] Swartz; Silver; Old Man Sougo; Barron; Asura.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#182177: Sep 9th 2019 at 4:11:21 AM

[tup] to Swartz, Silver, Old Man Sougo, Barron and Asura.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#182178: Sep 9th 2019 at 4:30:33 AM

Yes to Schwarzkopf. Hell, even I got a Kamen Rider CM up. The Legion Phantom from Wizard.

And yeah, we discussed Dan. While weird, it was decided V-Cinema is so bizarre and so "The Director just does whatever they want" that we decided to quietly ignore it. Like, I'm still confused as to the canonicity of these things.

Also, @ Delphine, thank you for blessing this thread with images of Elora.

lrrose Since: Jul, 2009
#182179: Sep 9th 2019 at 4:42:15 AM

[tup]Silver, Old Man Sougo, Barron, Asura

Fan727 Since: Sep, 2019
#182180: Sep 9th 2019 at 4:49:45 AM

Yes, I said I go away, but there is one character who might be worth considering.

I have another possible candidate of Demon Legacy.

The Work?

Demon Legacy, a story of a young man named Slade. He finished his training, but coincidentally stumbles on a dreaded being and gets ingulfed in a battle that decides the fate of mankind.

Who is he? What has he done?

Another Mad God, the Mad Scientist Deimos. Af first he saves Slade and Sharn from Shadar, but then betrays them and tries to get them killed. Then, he sends multiple living marionettes to kill Slade. After only three are left he sends them to capture Slade. Two escape and one is killed. Then, he kills the one that was defeated. When the remaining protests he has it mind-controlled. When you confront the doll, it only begs for death and has to be mercy-killed. He also re-captures Iris, trying to use her as a weapon against the Demi-Gods. During the speach he kills another for questioning him and when he's finally confronted he kills some simply for kicks. The marionettes are sapient and worse: They are made from human corpses. After the battle with him he's killed, or so we think. One last time the heroes confront his true form. He drains some souls and fights the heroes once again. Then his lair begins to collapse and three heroes (Slade, Sharn, Iris) escape, while the last (Orion) sacrifices himself to destroy Deimos' true form.

Not over yet. Deimos makes an attempt with returning and tries to kill Iris until Slade arrives and together they kill him for the last time for good.

Heinousness?

His Bad Boss behavior really makes him despicable, put putting one of his sentient creations to a Fate Worse than Death brings him beyond the pale. His goal is to kill the Demi-Gods, which isn't too far gone, but could have severe consequences for the envirement and his methods are really vile. He isn't as strong as Shadar, Abel or the Demi-Gods (Apollo, Arianna, Odin, Loki), so this might compensate.

Mitigating Factors?

Well, he pretended to help the Demi-Gods, so could betray them one day. He actually fears the Demi-Gods would harm the human race, so he tries to kill them, but he's also a hypocrite, who has no qualms with draining souls and questions arise from where the human corpses come. He said he faced trials, but this sounds like the LEAST Freudian Excuse someone has and to site Orion: "It doesn't excuse treating his people like trash.

Verdict?

He's an awful being and despite having less ressources than some villains he might make it.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#182181: Sep 9th 2019 at 5:21:50 AM

[tup] to Old Sougo, Barron, and Asura

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#182183: Sep 9th 2019 at 5:47:34 AM

[tup] Asura and Deimos.

I hope nobody else ignores Fan's EP...

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#182184: Sep 9th 2019 at 5:49:30 AM

Was this approved? If so, must it be SO long?

  • AdventureQuest 3D: Talyn is an evil DragonLord and the Big Bad of the "Dragons of Ashfall" Saga. He is a sociopathic Omnicidal Maniac who is incapable of feeling compassion for anyone but himself, even being a Bad Boss to his loyal minions who he is completely uncaring for and openly insults. He is first introduced where his previous dragon that he was bonded gets slain by a The Dragonslayer. However he is delighted over this and thanks said Dragonslayer for the act, as with his previous dragon partner gone it freed up space for him to bind with a stronger dragon. Specifically his Evil Plan is to awaken and enslave Akriloth the Great Fire Dragon, to which he would then use to lay waste to the whole world. In order to awaken the dragon, he would require several tributes, one of which being livestock for it to feed upon. Talyn's choice of livestock ends up being humans, where he has his minions captured villages of humans and intended to breed them like animals to provide enough food for the Akriloth to feast upon. When Hero and Dragonslayer Essa manage to foil this plan and celebrate their victory, Talyn shows up out of nowhere and kills Essa by stabbing her In the Back with his sword out of spite. Once the Hero ruins three of his tributes, Talyn then vouches to use his final tribute, the Fire Orb, to forcefully awaken Akriloth, before enslaving its mind with his Dragon Amulet, where once this was done his new slave could have "as many tributes as it wished". Given that Akriloth nearly reduced the world to ash the last time it was awake, Talyn takes great pleasure in knowing Lore will be destroyed in a blazing inferno. It is only defeating Talyn in combat that is finally able to put a stop to his mad plans to destroy the world.

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#182185: Sep 9th 2019 at 5:52:24 AM

[tup] Sougon, Asura and Deimos.

I wonder, does heinousness carry over in a series if a game is clearly establish to not take place in the same universe/setting of other games? I mean there's a game series that's not in the same world as all the other games in the series and I wonder if that carries over since if we compared them to the entire series they don't really count due to the heinous standard, but isolated as its own standalone continuity, it does actually stand out.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#182186: Sep 9th 2019 at 5:56:43 AM

Abstain on Deimos; not really sure he's bad enough compared to Apollo.

[up] Example? I think different continuities, different heinous standards.

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#182187: Sep 9th 2019 at 6:03:44 AM

Like there's a GTA that isolated to the other games as it's standalone. The older GTA games before the GTA III.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#182189: Sep 9th 2019 at 6:06:33 AM

[up][up] Oh, I think it can be treated as its own continuity.

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#182190: Sep 9th 2019 at 6:10:33 AM

[up] My only concern is that some people might downvote since the series it comes from. Even if I mention it comes from a different continuity, they might still compare it to the other games.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#182191: Sep 9th 2019 at 6:11:57 AM

Just clarify that it's different.

I'll submit Apollo next week, whether with Deimos or not.

EDIT: And yes, Talyn seems to've gotten enough votes.

Edited by ACW on Sep 9th 2019 at 9:14:39 AM

TheAlmightyKingPrawn Darkwing Goose from Surrounding the mind of A Self Called Nowhere Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Darkwing Goose
#182192: Sep 9th 2019 at 6:21:34 AM

[tup] everyone since I left

SP00PY month!
Fan727 Since: Sep, 2019
#182193: Sep 9th 2019 at 6:33:16 AM

ACW, Okay, then I will wait for that time.

Also no new EP from now on for a while.

Edited by Fan727 on Sep 9th 2019 at 6:35:23 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#182194: Sep 9th 2019 at 6:46:04 AM

I think Deimos may just make it, if I'm reading the whole thing with the dolls as an And I Must Scream right?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#182195: Sep 9th 2019 at 6:53:33 AM

And if it is, how many dolls are there exactly?

Fan727 Since: Sep, 2019
#182196: Sep 9th 2019 at 6:54:53 AM

That would be what he does with his second-in-command Sarius.

The dolls are independent beings that are created with simple knowledge but seem normal.

Edited by Fan727 on Sep 9th 2019 at 6:56:22 AM

Fan727 Since: Sep, 2019
#182197: Sep 9th 2019 at 7:06:48 AM

Several Dozens or Hundreds or thousands, I think.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#182198: Sep 9th 2019 at 7:08:12 AM

Of what ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#182199: Sep 9th 2019 at 7:10:31 AM

If it is indeed shown to be And I Must Scream, I'll toss in a yes. Should Deimos go before or after Apollo?

Fan727 Since: Sep, 2019
#182200: Sep 9th 2019 at 7:24:51 AM

Before. He was introduced before Apollo and was also killed off before him.

Also, Shadar is the overarching villain, but I wouldn't say he qualifies.

He isn't a Bad Boss while some others are and while he sometimes kills for weak reasons, he at least doesn't kill several people because in his mind he doesn't have to.

Edited by Fan727 on Sep 9th 2019 at 7:27:00 AM


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