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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#181826: Sep 7th 2019 at 7:27:48 AM

@Lightysnake Thanks for chiming in mayne! Think that just cover Iced Earth candidate for now. Happy to have my first music candidate(s) on my belt and I will thank an anonymous Discord user for recommending me this music.

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Sep 7th 2019 at 9:42:12 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#181827: Sep 7th 2019 at 7:29:16 AM

I will say, if anyone's looking for an incarnation of one of the top CM's, music's a GOLD MINE. That's given me a Jack, a Bathory, a Mengele, a Hitler, and a Vlad.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#181828: Sep 7th 2019 at 7:33:14 AM

@ACW I will admit that I agree with Delphine, music can be tricky as well especially when developing the candidate's personality and their heinous deeds but yeah... That's why when doing this candidate, you should take it with pre-caution

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#181829: Sep 7th 2019 at 7:35:30 AM

[tdown]Nassana, Mard Geer, Violator and Alok.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TheAlmightyKingPrawn Darkwing Goose from Surrounding the mind of A Self Called Nowhere Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Darkwing Goose
#181830: Sep 7th 2019 at 7:53:20 AM

First time doing this. I'm really nervous.

The Work "Kiss Me, Son of God" is the final song on They Might Be Giants' Lincoln album. It's from the point of view of a Corrupt Corporate Executive.

Lyrics I built a little empire out of some crazy garbage Called the blood of the exploited working class But they've overcome their shyness Now they're calling me Your Highness And a world screams, "Kiss me, Son of God"

I destroyed a bond of friendship and respect Between the only people left who'd even look me in the eye Now I laugh and make a fortune Off the same ones that I tortured And a world screams, "Kiss me, Son of God"

I look like Jesus, so they say But Mr. Jesus is very far away Now you're the only one here who can tell me if it's true That you love me and I love me

I built a little empire out of some crazy garbage Called the blood of the exploited working class But they've overcome their shyness Now they're calling me Your Highness And a world screams, "Kiss me, Son of God" Yes a world screams, "Kiss me, Son of God"

Heinousness This is what I'm unsure of. This song is incredibly dark even by They Might Be Giants' Lyrical Dissonance standards, but it's kinda vague as to what exactly he did other than abuse and brainwash his workers under the guise of Jesus.

Migating Factors? Nada.

Verdict? Kinda unsure, what do you guys think?

Edited by TheAlmightyKingPrawn on Sep 7th 2019 at 10:55:06 AM

SP00PY month!
DelphineTheDelphox I thought sharks were my friends. from The Alola Region Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I thought sharks were my friends.
#181831: Sep 7th 2019 at 7:55:17 AM

Nay. Sorry, but the lyrics don't seem particularly cruel or monstrous.

RIP KissAnime.
Fan727 Since: Sep, 2019
#181832: Sep 7th 2019 at 7:57:38 AM

Well, looks like the two FT characters aren't going to be listed.

I think it's done for Fairy Tail from my side.

Then, it's over from my side. Bye for now. Maybe I will return with some different characters.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#181834: Sep 7th 2019 at 8:04:27 AM

Executive seems like an asshole, but not quite CM level.

Lighty may have a point about the Duncans. That said, trios are still probably fine. We also have the Slavers and the Naked Kill trio, FWIW.

Also, I'm not gonna do one of the Ghidorahs (Godzilla: Oblivion), but I still got another. Eventually.

Edited by ACW on Sep 7th 2019 at 11:47:58 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#181835: Sep 7th 2019 at 8:06:08 AM

[tup]to everyone except the fairy tale duo, violator, and TMBG Corrupt Corporate Executive

Because of the Red Zone Cuba, does that mean that a character doesn't have to be potrayed as a villain for him to qualify as Complete Monster

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#181836: Sep 7th 2019 at 8:07:21 AM

Griffin is like, the exception that proves the rule. The sheer ineptitude it takes to write an intended hero as a CM is the sort of thing that virtually never happens

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#181837: Sep 7th 2019 at 8:07:43 AM

I'll do a few today, starting with...

What's the work?

Fire Monsters against the Son of Hercules is another Maciste film...set in prehistoric times (Maciste is a very prolific fellow), where our hero Maciste comes to help the tribe of the Sun People against monsters and the wicked tribe of cave people, led by the brutal Fuwan. So, let's talk Fuwan.

Who is Fuwan?

The savage leader of the cave people, Fuwan pays lip service to their deity, the moon goddess, in favor of conquest, brutality and rape. Fuwan leads an assault on the tribe of the son people that results in the deaths of the younh hero Aydar's father, later killing Aydar's brother as well, and after massacring most of them? Fuwan kidnaps all the women to be dragged back to the caves, throwing most of them to his men to be used as you may expect, while plotting to keep Aydar's wife Rhia, along with attempting to force his long-time captive woman Moah to be his.

In accordance with his high priest, Fuwan also plans to take the women and conduct a mass sacrifice, having them beheaded on the altars before the moon, with his men cheering all the way, at least one actually sacrificed this way, before Maciste intervenes. Maciste, because there's like a clause stipulating he needs to be useless at least once, is captured with Moah when she tries to help, buried up to his neck and Fuwan prepares to kill him when an earthquake occurs (indicated to be divine retribution) and most of the tribe is wiped out.

Fuwan, enraged and vengeful, but lacking the manpower, decides to exterminate the sun people...he takes his forces and makes a pact with several cannibal tribes in the forest, promising them all his women in return...but also plotting to burn them alive in their forests. He leads an attack on the Sun village, ending in a personal duel with Aydar, who owes Fuwan big...and in the ensuing fight, Fuwan is misdirected and the great monument of the sun God falls upon him, crushing him painfully, as Maciste and Moah head off in search of new adventures.

Heinousness?

A genocidal, mass-sacrificing, brutal tyrant? Pass.

Mitigating Qualities?

Nothing. Fuwan isn't devout like others and he's got no care for his followers or people. He's just a violent savage out to conquer, driven by hate and greed.

Conclusion?

Easy keeper.

Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#181838: Sep 7th 2019 at 8:08:14 AM

[nja]

Edited by Draxterrus on Sep 7th 2019 at 11:08:30 PM

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#181839: Sep 7th 2019 at 8:09:00 AM

Hmmmm... We have Villain Protagonist trope for a reason. I guess you could argue that Griffin's inclusion was more of a bad writing on the movie's part. And we also have Ahmanet who also qualifies due to poor writing but I don't know...

Anyways, sure to your candidate Lighty

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Sep 7th 2019 at 10:09:30 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#181840: Sep 7th 2019 at 8:10:29 AM

[tup]Fuwan

Do you think it'll get to the point we will create a page for Maciste?

Edited by nwotyzal on Sep 7th 2019 at 8:13:36 AM

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#181841: Sep 7th 2019 at 8:10:31 AM

[tup] Fazira, Kincaid, Gray, Morpheus, and Fuwan.[tdown] to the FT duo, Violator, Nassana, and the executive. Nassana is pretty bad and lacks redeeming qualities but doesn't really stand out that much to me, her actions really aren't that unique. The executive from the They Might be Giants song just seems to be generic and his actions seem pretty vague to me.

Edited by TommyFresh on Sep 7th 2019 at 8:12:40 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#181842: Sep 7th 2019 at 8:12:12 AM

[up][up][up] that's why I said "hero" and not protagonist. A Villain Protagonist can count, but even most DesignatedHeroes still have some redeeming factor

Edited by Libraryseraph on Sep 7th 2019 at 11:12:26 AM

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#181843: Sep 7th 2019 at 8:12:23 AM

Yes to Fuwan.

No to Alok and the executive.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#181844: Sep 7th 2019 at 8:12:36 AM

[tup]Fuwan

[tdown]Executive evil

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#181845: Sep 7th 2019 at 8:13:00 AM

[tup] Fuwan. Is Maciste still a thing nowadays, or is the series dead?

Also here's my writeup:

Inversion: Kiltehr is the Prophet leader of the Lutadores who seeks control over the Inversion spaceship. Ordering a raid on Vanguard City, the Lutadores kill thousands of humans, capturing the adults for slave labor, while transporting the children back to Kiltehr’s homeworld. Later capturing Davis Russell and Leo Delgado to be offered as sacrifices to the gods, Kiltehr leaves his men to die as soon as his base is invaded, and when cornered by Davis and Leo, activates the Inversion’s self-destruct switch, planning to take billions of lives, including his own people, to the grave out of spite.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Sep 7th 2019 at 8:14:27 AM

It's Spooky Month!
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#181848: Sep 7th 2019 at 8:22:33 AM

Hasn't been a Maciste film in at least 40 years, to my knowledge.

Now, my next one...to go from the Fairy Tale theme...Hansel and Gretel? Yep, the original Wicked Witch.

Who is the Witch?

A seemingly kind old woman who lurks in the forest, constructing a house made of sweet bread, covered in cakes with windows of clear sugar, for one reason alone: to lure in innocent children to her clutches. And I'll let Jacob and Wilhelm do the rest:

" The old woman had only pretended to be so kind. She was in reality a wicked witch, who lay in wait for children, and had only built the little house of bread in order to entice them there. When a child fell into her power, she killed it, cooked and ate it, and that was a feast day with her."

And from what we gather? She's done this a lot, much like the Robber Bridegroom. The witch locks Hansel away, planning to fatten him for the feast, while forcing gretel to feed her brother, plotting to eat her at the end as well. Because her sight is bad, Hansel is able to fool her by using a bone when she asks to feel his finger, resulting in her thinking he's thin. When four weeks pass, the witch grows ever more annoyed and decides she's simply going to murder and cook him anyways....she then tells Gretel to check the oven, plotting to lock her in, burn her alive and eat her there as well.

Gretel, being clever,says she can't fit, and the annoyed witch demonstrates even she can fit, so Gretel must be able to....only for Gretel to shove her in, and then... "Then she began to howl quite horribly, but Gretel ran away, and the godless witch was miserably burnt to death."

Heinousness?

Okay, so...child eating witch in the woods This is the original. And there's no nice bones about it. In the old school Grimm, she burns kids alive or carves them up to cook them for feast day. Going along with the Robber Bridegroom, she's a monstrous child eating serial killer.

Mitigating Qualities?

Zilch. She's a godless, evil witch, according to the text. We don't know much else, but what do we need to know? The narration makes the pattern firmly clear, and she baits the traps to lure in children to murder and eat because she's evil. She gets dialogue and a personality as well, so pass.

Conclusion?

One of those "How'd we miss this?" But I'd say keeper.

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP

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