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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#181801: Sep 7th 2019 at 3:33:25 AM

Eh screw it...Final candidate of Iced Earth and this one I was more unsure of compared to Kincaid or Malebolgia.

Who is He/What Has He Done

From the song called Violate, This song told us the story about Clown/Violator, the first villain of Spawn and essentially a demon from 5th level of hell who was transformed into a perverted, ugly little clown and initially serves as Spawn ally but as the time went by, he became Spawn's greatest enemy. Anyways, I'll just copy what the lyrics said about what he has done in the song:

"Enter now the fiendish one
Twisted little man
Vile wretch disgusting mess
Perverted little man
Born of hell and in disease
Hate festers in his veins
Demonic clown and shapeshifter
Little man gone insane

Enter now
Enter now
And violate

I'll beat you with your spinal cord
Split your skull in two
I'll feast on your intestines
There's nothing I can't do
I'll rip your heart out of your chest
Watch it beat as you cry
I revel in your agony
I violate and make you die

Enter now
Enter now
And violate"

That's about it really. The song mostly described how Violator looks like and how he brutally kills his victims and how he sadistically revels in their agony so yeah.

Freudian Excuse/Mitigating Factors

None than given, I think he's just a sadistic demon but that's it.

Heinous Standard

Aaaaah...This is one that I'm not sure about. The heinous standard issue. I could live with Billy Kincaid qualifying as he is basically a Serial Child Killer+Molester which carves a very unique niche for him and its stated that his bodycount is countless and I'm also fine with Malebolgia too due to his intent to annihilate humanity by corrupting Al Simmons.

My main issue with Violator is probably its not stated how many bodycount that he has but one can argue that he can qualify with a skin of his teeth given on the method of killing his victim is brutal as hell (Ripping someone's hearts out+Feast on someone's intestines+Beating someone with a spinal cord+Splitting someone's skull in two) and took a sadistic pleasure but I don't know...He feels rather...Eh. I could go either way with him.

Final Verdict

Could go either way with Violator honestly like my previous Iced Earth candidates. Even if they got downvoted at the end of the day, I'm really happy to propose a music candidate on my list even if they can be tricky sometimes. Until then, I'll let you guys decide

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
DelphineTheDelphox I thought sharks were my friends. from The Alola Region Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I thought sharks were my friends.
#181802: Sep 7th 2019 at 3:34:05 AM

Abstain.

RIP KissAnime.
Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#181803: Sep 7th 2019 at 3:41:08 AM

As cruel and unusual as the death was, it's can still be said that there's only one death.

I usually don't vote here but this time I would give Violator a no.

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#181804: Sep 7th 2019 at 3:44:22 AM

Yes to Fazira, Billy Kincaid, Morpheus, Madison Grey, and Nassana.

No to Geer and the Violator.

Fan727 Since: Sep, 2019
#181805: Sep 7th 2019 at 3:47:52 AM

Okay, it looks like we have to wait until the user with Mugear on his To-Do-List will propose him. Until then nothing happens.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
MovieFan2000 Since: Jan, 2016
#181807: Sep 7th 2019 at 4:08:01 AM

Sadly I'll give a [tdown] to Clown/Violator. The song only describes what he is like and what he'll do to his victims. But aside that there's very little informations about him

Edited by MovieFan2000 on Sep 7th 2019 at 4:12:18 AM

KingofNightmares Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Fan727 Since: Sep, 2019
#181809: Sep 7th 2019 at 4:31:09 AM

Then, my last possible candidate for today. Yet another one from Fairy Tail.

What's the work?

Again: Going to cite Lightysnake: (don't worry, I know the setting myself)

"Fairy Tail is a lighthearted Shonen adventure series centered in the land of Fiore. A special few people are mages, some forming guilds that take jobs and go on adventures. The top guild? Fairy Tail. The series proceeds to focus on the adventures of Fairy Tail's top members as world-changing events unfold."

After the fall of the Balam Alliance, a new threat appears in the form of the Avatar cult. The character in question is their leader.

Who is he? What has he done?

Alok, the High Priest of the Avatar cult. The first scenes are him simply bragging about wanting to create a world ruled by Zeref. The third scene is where he really begins to shine. He sends his people to wipe out a over 30.000 people big town until the heroes arrive and stop them. After several of his elites are beaten, he says everything is as he planned. Then Natsu fights him and Alok is defeated by him. Then, he reveals his true plan after his defeat and summons the War God Ikusa-Tsunagi. His true plan is to have his followers killed by the War God Ikusa-Tsunagi, because he believes Zeref-followers have to get killed to summon Zeref. But of course Natsu ends up destroying the War God and the day is saved. Afterwards, the Magic Council arrives and Alok is arrested along with the other Avatar cultists and the town is saved.

Heinous Standard?

Another one who's not the worst. That part goes to Acnologia, who no one except Zeref can rival. Even then, he out-does Jose in being terrible. Worst deeds by Jose? Trying to wipe out a town and torturing one of the heroes. Alok tries to wipe out a town and also his own people. There is also that Mard Geer out-does him in terribleness but having more than just a town as target, but Mard Geer could be argued to be stronger than Alok.

Mitigating Factors?

He's a Zeref fanatic, who supposedly does everything "for Zeref". By the end of the arc they made clear the Avatar cult doesn't know anything about Zeref. He's just like a symbol of the most evil or "best" person in their words they simply use as a belief so they can summon him. So there is no loyalty.

Verdict?

Undecided. Either he is a contender or he's too overshadowed by another dark lord (Mard Geer).

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#181810: Sep 7th 2019 at 4:42:05 AM

[tup]to Fazira, Morpheus, and Madison Grey

Abstain on Nassana and the Fairy Tail candidates

[tdown] to Violator

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#181811: Sep 7th 2019 at 5:37:15 AM

[tup] to Quan Chi, Evil Queen, The Witch, Ananke, Queen Fazira, Billy Kincaid, Morpheus, Madison Gray and Nassana Dantius

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#181812: Sep 7th 2019 at 5:40:07 AM

I'll wait for Lighty's views on Alok before voting.

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#181813: Sep 7th 2019 at 6:05:52 AM

[tup] Morpheus and Nassana.

You know, it's a pretty good idea to scavenge series that do have C Ms since there might be a candidate in their that someone missed, speaking experience with Lorenzo. I also think it's possible a lot of these series were checked during the early stages of the trope where the standards were quiet different. I mean, I personally don't look for potential C Ms in everything I'm interested, but I do keep an open-eye for them even if they have listed candidates already.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#181814: Sep 7th 2019 at 6:10:20 AM

Yes to Morpheus, Madison Grey, and Nassana.

No to Geer and the Violator.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#181815: Sep 7th 2019 at 6:20:49 AM

No to the FT stuff, I've read the manga and Mard Geer didn't stand out in the face of Jackal's—his own subordinate—personal cruelties and Alok has only a few chapters as a villain where he, his followers and his war god are all hilariously curb stomped by Natsu. Neither stand out compared to the current list of keepers.

KingofNightmares Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#181816: Sep 7th 2019 at 6:29:00 AM

[tdown] Mard Geer and Alok in that case

Edited by KingofNightmares on Sep 7th 2019 at 6:35:58 AM

"It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times?"
DelphineTheDelphox I thought sharks were my friends. from The Alola Region Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I thought sharks were my friends.
#181817: Sep 7th 2019 at 6:31:15 AM

Abstain on Alok.

What's the maximum number of people who can share a single entry? I ask because I just remembered a work with three potential candidates, End of Watch, who were all previously cut back in 2013 for having zero context. It's been a while since I've seen it, so I'll to rewatch to make sure they even qualify, but I want to see if it's even kosher for a trio to qualify together, because I know duos are okay.

RIP KissAnime.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#181818: Sep 7th 2019 at 6:37:15 AM

I'd say trios are fine. We have the Reavers; the Triumvirate; and we even have a quartet in the Duncans.

lrrose Since: Jul, 2009
#181819: Sep 7th 2019 at 6:38:27 AM

Sorry for my absence from this thread. I had a really stressful week at work.

[tup]Fazira, Kincaid, Morpheus, Gray, Nassana
[tdown]Fairy Tale duo, Violator

DelphineTheDelphox I thought sharks were my friends. from The Alola Region Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I thought sharks were my friends.
#181820: Sep 7th 2019 at 6:38:46 AM

Awesome. I'll take a look at the movie later today. I remember them all having no redeeming qualities, but I have to make sure they meet the baseline standard.

RIP KissAnime.
TheAlmightyKingPrawn Darkwing Goose from Surrounding the mind of A Self Called Nowhere Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Darkwing Goose
#181821: Sep 7th 2019 at 7:00:54 AM

[tup] Ananke, Morpheus, and Madison Grey. Abstain on everyone else.

SP00PY month!
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#181822: Sep 7th 2019 at 7:16:58 AM

[tup] to Gray and Nassana; [tdown] to Geer, Violator and Alok.

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#181823: Sep 7th 2019 at 7:17:29 AM

[up][up][up][up][up]I thought we set the group rule at 3 together as an absolute maximum. That family from the Jack Reacher novels might need to be looked at because 4 is REALLY stretching the limit.

Edited by LoreDeluxe on Sep 7th 2019 at 7:17:44 AM

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#181824: Sep 7th 2019 at 7:25:15 AM

My understanding is we just kept the patriarch as he's the one fully in charge and the one most characterized to the rest. If we kept all four, we should only have the boss there, IMO

Catching up...

Yes to Morpheus Buress, yes to Madison Gray....Nassana? TBH, I don't think she does enough. She's nasty and cruel, but is this really the heinous standard? She kills her workers and manipulates her evil sister's death....Mass Effect is home to tons and tons of people doing loads of horrible things, with massacres and large scale deaths commonplace. Even relatively understandable characters' hands aren't clean at times, when you look at some of the Krogan or Asari. No to Mard Geer, Violator and Alok.

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#181825: Sep 7th 2019 at 7:27:23 AM

[up]Switching to a no on Nassana; honestly, I was a little iffy on her from the start even though I upvoted her.


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