Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Sure to Gensho.

Think I'll wait on Gensho.

Do we not have enough already?

to Gensho

Stay safe, Lighty

Alright, I've convinced myself to do a proposal for Wayne Williams.

What is the work?

Mindhunter is a Netflix original crime series that is based on the life of real-life FBI agent John Douglas, though it is often a very dramatized show with fictional characters in place here and there.

Holden Ford is a young FBI agent who is fascinated with the mind of killers and, with the help of older, gruffer agent Bill Tench, he starts a branch of the FBI specifically revolving around interviewing captured serial killers, and using their knowledge and insights to solve ongoing cases.

Who is Wayne Williams? What has he done?

Wayne Williams, "the Atlanta Monster," is the final Arc Villain of Season 2. Williams is a distinct-looking black man, who wears glasses and is on the short side.

A music producer, Williams claims he is determined to find "the next Jackson 5," and hands out flyers at arcades and malls to children asking them to come with him to a music studio to record demos.

Eventually, black children start disappearing in Atlanta. Primarily young boys, they are found brutally strangled and left like trash in various places for people to find. There are some alterations in the murders, such as the fact that a couple of the victims are young girls who were stabbed to death, but most of the 28 children who disappeared and were found murdered were boys with cause of death as strangulation, and two adult males.

BSU agents Holden Ford and Bill Tench eventually officially start investigating the Atlanta Child Murders, and start by sending the police to browse a road that the killer previously dumped a body. After that, they believe a white plumber is a potential suspect, and, when Ford and Tench take him into custody to interrogate him, another young boy is kidnapped and murdered in the exact time frame, and the body dumped in the exact street the police were just recently searching.

Realizing that the killer is both taunting them and refuses to let anyone else have the credit for his crimes, Ford and Tench eventually find their way to Williams. One night while patrolling a bridge on a stakeout, the police heard a loud "splash" like something was just dumped off the bridge, and considering a large chunk of the Atlanta Child Murder victims were found floating downstream, they catch Williams immediately leaving the bridge in his car and begin to investigate him. Williams says he was off to meet a woman named Cheryl Johnson as part of his music producing business, but the police later confirm that there is no one named Cheryl Johnson in the entire area, and find it suspect that Williams would be going there at nearly 3 in the morning.

Ford and Tench find rope and gloves in the back of Williams's car, all while Williams answers any of their questions in a smug, very mocking way, claiming that the car isn't his and that the rope and gloves don't belong to him. Due to some of the victims having dog hair and green carpet fibers on them, Ford asks Williams if he owns a dog, to which he says no, and he is ultimately allowed to drive home.

The next day, when Ford arrives at Williams's home, where he lives with his parents, he finds the same car in the driveway, and it has been cleaned out of all the supplies and meticulously wiped down. Entering the home, Ford finds both a green carpet and a dog, and Williams hastily tries to justify that it's his father's, therefore he was truthful that he didn't have a dog.

Ford and Tench take Williams in for questioning, and though Williams maintains his innocence the entire time, he's being a snarky, smug bastard the entire time, only further convincing the BSU that he's behind the child murders.

When media learns of Williams's potential involvement in the crimes, Williams turns the thing into a media circus, handing out his resume to the reporters, inviting them into his home to interview him and proclaim innocence, and driving right up to the mayor's house and blaring his horn and shouting at the man.

During all of these distractions, Williams's father sneaks to a nearby private airport, and begins making preparations to buy a single, one way charter ticket to South America for Williams, revealing that Williams is planning to flee the country as the police zero in on him.

In a humorous scene, Williams, being followed by Ford and Tench who are trying to be subtle, pulls through a restaurant, buys the cheapest food there, and strolls up and hands it to them, saying "I thought you boys might be hungry." with a smirk on his face, revealing that he knows they're following him.

Ford and Tench, interviewing people who have known Williams his personal life, reveal that Williams left a potentially great career to be a music man, but that he's been failing ever since, and often goes on rants that it's the fault of his fellow black men for tainting the appearance of his entire race by being delinquents and criminals, and that if it weren't for them, he'd be successful in life.

Ford and Tench come to the conclusion that Williams is a narcissist who blames people of his own skin color for his failings in life, and, due to his short stature inhibiting his intimidation, Williams targeted boys as young as 10 to take out his frustrations on by murdering them, and he lured them to his home by promising to make them music stars. The two adult male victims were Williams growing bolder, especially as the adult victims were either drunk or elderly and would be on the weaker side, making Williams's killing them easier.

Williams is eventually arrested and charged with the two adult murders, and the Atlanta Child Murders stop completely after this. Though Williams is only formerly charged with the murders of two adult men, most of the Child Murders themselves are attributed to him, and the cases closed.

Does Williams have a Freudian Excuse or other mitigating factors?

His excuse is revealed to be nothing but having an ego that blames others for his problems, and he decides to murder to sate it. He lives with his parents, and his father even takes time to seek out a charter flight for his son, but said parents are rarely seen, Williams has zero screentime with them, and he only ever talks about them in reference to his living conditions/that they could corroborate his whereabouts on certain nights.

The only real issue is that how many of the murders Williams committed is left up to the viewer. At the very end of the season, after Williams's capture, Ford and Tench are bombarded with people who believe it was the Ku Klux Klan, and discover that a local pedophile had hundreds of pictures of young black boys in his home, which had been previously hidden by police. This info would have made the pedophile a highly potential suspect in the investigation, and thus Ford begins doubting that Williams was the only "Atlanta Monster."

However, the fact remains that a massive portion of the murders were attributed to Williams, and though he never admits guilt, his Faux Affably Evil and Smug Snake nature are enough to betray that he's the killer and is just trying to escape justice.

Is Williams sufficiently heinous?

This is a show based on the reality of serial killers, so there are some very evil villains. Edmund Kemper raped and decapitated several college girls before doing the same to his mother and a friend of hers, BTK is part of an ongoing investigation where he asphyxiated an entire family and hanged the youngest daughter along with a variety of other murders, and the likes of Charles Manson and David Berkowitz are in the show as well.

Overall though, I think Williams stands out. Williams has many, many child murders on his hands, and even though it's not stated how many of the 28 were absolutely his, the police attributed at least 15 or more to Williams.

Final Verdict?

Though I was iffy at first to propose him, I will give Williams a slight . The fact that he never admits to the murders is something that could throw in a kink into if he had the personality to count, but Williams himself is a smug man who mocks the police, and the fact that he murdered a child and dumped the body in a spot the police were just searching the previous days just to taunt the police that they're wasting time on a suspect shows his ego and cruelty.

I think I'll say yes to Williams.

Leaning

Oh. Age of Sigmar. If we are classing it as a sequel, when I thought it was a reboot, we're considering it canon to the events of the Old World? If so, Mannfred von Carstein has to be cut, seeing as he's given redeeming qualities in Age of Sigmar. Which, you know, come out of nowhere and reek of another attempt to set up Mannfred as "the true von Carstein", but they are still present.

Very weak, tentative yea to Gensho. Also leaning yes to Williams.

Edited by Riley1sCool on Aug 30th 2019 at 7:55:20 AM

Wayne Williams

Given Mannfred is killed and reborn, I'm willing to give some leeway in how different the world is.

Yes to Williams.

Edited by Lightysnake on Aug 30th 2019 at 7:57:34 AM

Yes to Williams.

Gensho and Williams. I feel pretty comfortable with Williams going up, there is some ambiguity but I think it's still clear enough that he was responsible for quite a bit. Most of the killers who might rival him are pretty firmly in the territory of Offscreen Villainy, and even when compared to them I still think he manages to stand out.

GW duo

XO: We only got six so far.

40K has 5 (the main 4 and Kyras), but will likely eventually get enough for a page; we already have a header, quote, and image

Thinking Gensho.

Unsure on Williams.

Everyone okay with cutting the Warhammer heading?

Edited by ACW on Aug 30th 2019 at 11:49:10 AM

Abstain to Williams.

After watching a playthrough of the game, sure to Gensho. I'd like to add that Gensho also shows glee when he uses the Spirit's power, and is rather happy to use them against his enemies. He also suffers Motive Decay, going from "Take Over the World" to "destroy everything" in sight.

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Aug 30th 2019 at 6:03:12 PM

to Wayne.

Aren't 40K and Fantasy pretty much part of the same IP?

They're both Warhammer, but I don't think there's any continuity.

Wayne. We know who he is, that's the prime difference between him and Zodiac.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Aug 30th 2019 at 1:29:08 PM

Lil Wayne

I'm just going to propose my writeups now.

• Novas Aventuras De Megaman:
  • Dr. Wily is the ultimate dictator of the world. Originally a young scientist, Wily was the leader of Project Saint Lazarus, where young Brazilian girls were kidnapped and cyborg-ized to become the next step in computer robotics, with Wily having experimented on over a hundred children. Imprisoned by Mega Man and friends, Wily broke out and partnered with the Holzenbein Estate and some aliens to create the Neo-Mavericks, which Wily used to slaughter most of humankind and become the world’s dictator, even creating an apocalypse after nuking an entire city to get rid of Dr. Light. Once Mega Man is awakened by Roll, Wily sends his men out to track Mega Man’s location, uncaring for their deaths, even allowing Mega Man to kill his business rivals. Knowing that the aliens will return and usurp control of the earth away from him, Wily and his 150 Mavericks try and kill the Mega Man family for good, hoping to capture Roll and keep the world for himself.
  • Mr. Holzenbein is a corrupt scientist turned businessman who took part in Project Saint Lazarus to sell the robotic girls for their organs and sexual slavery. Having worked with Wily on his plan to rule the world, Holzenbein split from him and started his own company, where he has little girls cloned and sold for profit. Kidnapping various women and performing Voodoo sacrifices on them for no reason, Holzenbein plans to overthrow Wily and take his place as the world’s dictator, announcing to his assistant the end of everything.
• The Super Inframan: Demon Princess Elzebub/Princess Dragon Mom is a tyrannical monarch who desires to conquer the earth and enslave humankind. Awakening from her slumber, she proceeds to cause untold amounts of earthquakes and fires that kill over 10,000 people, threatening the Earth with either enslavement or death. Choosing to instead kill more humans, she sends her minions out with orders to destroy various Japanese cities. After Inframan wipes them out, Elzebub proceeds to capture Professor Liu to create an Inframan of her own that she will use to wipe out humanity, torturing his assistant Ming and turning him into one of her slaves while also threatening Liu’s daughter with murder.
• Darkstalkers and Darkstalkers: The Night Warriors, by Ken Siu-Chong: Pyron is a sadistic space deity who enjoys devouring planets to gain power, having done so to his own home planet. Noticing the young planet Earth, Pyron waits for it to ripen and grow before promising to return and eat it. Spending the next millennia feasting on populated planets, Pyron heads back to the populated Earth, deciding to fight Morrigan and Demitri for his own amusement before he tries to devour the world completely.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Aug 30th 2019 at 9:33:01 AM

to wayne, tentative to gensho

I'll trust Lighty on Manfred.

Scraggle's right on Hollywood. Would have liked to talk more about it, but without him here it seems that isn't to happen.

Guessing Manson's not heinous enough?

He has one scene and we never see him again. He's a cipher. A ghost. A shadow that haunts Tarantino's fairy tale in malignant yet mysterious ways.

So kinda, ACW. Kinda.

Possible images for Joker from Joker graphic novel:

Joker mortally wounds Johnny at the end

Joker kills peaceful old couple

Joker kills another innocent

Joker kills his own barmen

Joker kills a mob boss, with whom he made alliance with

Joker skins one of his own men

Also a graphic novel has a bizarre moment of Joker crying, while hugging Harley, don't know if it's suggest anything, since Joker barely interacts with her before and after, but still.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Aug 30th 2019 at 8:09:45 PM

Holy crap that comic's graphic.

Abstaining on Williams.

@ACW How much continuity is there between various elseworlds and their "main" universes?

@Polar Well, we do have a version of Manson who qualities.

@Vile Yeesh.

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Aug 30th 2019 at 10:21:10 AM