During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
A few for today...I'll get the worst out of the way first:
What's the work?
Into the Sun is a 2005 Steven Seagal film, set in Japan, with Seagal playing a CIA operative who takes on a new, up and coming, psychopathic member of the Yakuza: Kuroda.
Who is Kuroda?
A young Yakuza killer in a white suit and carrying a katana, Kuroda has no regard for the strict code of honor many of the older Yakuza follow, and happily allies with the Chinese Tongs to help his rise to power. Seagal plays retired CIA agent raised in Japan (SIGH) named Travis Hunter who along with rookie FBI agent Sean arrives, Travis reconnecting with his old Yakuza contacts..
Kuroda? Has the governor of Tokyo assassinated, along with a load of other people he has murdered, intending on building a gigantic drug smuggling operation. Now, Kuroda is absolutely fucking insane, killing people for no reason at the drop of a hat. He begins to target the old, entrenched Yakuza establishment, wiping out entire outfits and killing others, expanding his territory by massacring other soldiers and bosses, including the old school boss Ishikawa. Another young, more 'honorable' Yakuza? It's revealed Kuroda murdered his wife and child ina failed hit but also for fun.
In another meeting? One boss has the bad sense to question Kuroda. Kuroda promptly stabs him to death on the spot. One of his teen drug runners is caught by Seagal and offers a pinky to Kuroda to atone. Kuroda? Shoots him in the head. slowly locking in on Travis as Travis centers in on him, Kuroda has Sean captured and tortures him. Probably to find why the US's FBI is operating in Japan (QTNA!)...one of his men gets too enthusiastic and kills Sean, to Kuroda's slight irritation.
Upon tracking down Travis, they find his fiancee, Nayako. Kuroda, to make it personal? Has his top assassin cut her down, and then kill the top old school boss. Kuroda turns on his allies to kill them and corner the drug trade when Seagal and the rest arrive...the one warrior seeking revenge? Upon confronting Kuroda with a sword, Kuroda simply shoots him before Travis arrives. Kuroda mockingly grabs his own katana and in the ensuing fight, is cut down by Travis.
Mitigating Qualities?
Kuroda is absolutely insane to levels you can't believe anyone would ever work with him. He's trigger happy, slaughters and tortures people constantly, and spends every second onscreen being the least subtle psycho imaginable. The film takes the complete nonsense view that the 'old school' Yakuza are these honorable Friendly Neighborhood Gangsters, and Kuroda is this crazy newbie who cares not for honor. Grain of salt this, heavily.
And, of course, he kills Steven Seagal's fiancee, but I'm almost inclined to count this as mitigating. After all, he spared her from a life of being married to Steven Seagal.
Conclusion?
Easy keeper.
Yes to Dallal, Dogan (for a second I thought a candidate from Sword of Truth was being proposed), Bronson, and Kuroda.
No to Shima and the Tyrant.
I think the worst work I got a CM up from was either Superman vs. the Terminator: Death to the Future or Ogre Slayer.
Yes to the Crocodile Queen.
Edited by falcontalons on Aug 27th 2019 at 6:51:36 AM
second? And thanks to Scraggle for these two..
What's the work?
The Devil's Sword or Golok Setan, is a 1984 Indonesian film, that can best be described as a mix of Swords and Sorcery and Martial Arts. Our villain is the Crocodile Queen and the film centers on the hero Mandala who is questing to find a magic sword to keep it out of the wrong hands...and to defeat the wicked sorceress called The Crocodile Queen.
Who is the Crocodile Queen?
An ancient and evil sorceress living in a great cave with crocodiles, including a great crocodile statue that contains her great power sources. In her underwater den, the Crocodile Queen has one MO to satisfy herself and keep herself young: She demands villages, under threat of death, provide her with sacrifices. Handsome young men are taken and sent to her undersea caves where she mentally dominates them into her slaves and rapes them, hosting regular orgies with said slaves, all while draining them of life and sanity to empower herself, throwing them into cages and keeping them as feral beasts she feeds meat to when they're done. And she's done this with tons of men, a lot being seen.
Targeting one village, she tries to steal the new husband of the village's warrior princess, and when she resists? The Queen sends her forces, particularly her top warrior and Mandala's old rival Banyu-Jaga, to slaughter the village to teach them a bit of a lesson....Banyu-Jaga is introduced exploding out of a mountain, surfing down on a chunk of rock and then slaughtering people. Banyu-Jaga is hardcore.
now, Mandala spends most of the film questing to find the great sword to defeat the Crocodile Queen, and she mostly vanishes until the end when they hit her lair. The Crocodile Queen tries to mentally dominate and rape Mandala, taking the princess's husband to wave him in her face and mock her how her husband has become the Queen's willing servant and new victim. However, Mandala manages to resist and a huge battle ensues through the Queen's chambers. Her acolytes and soldiers are defeated and the heroes destroy the source of her youth, revealing her true form as a decrepit hag. In the battle with her, Mandala wields the magic Devil's Sword and slashes her throat, killing her and causing her lair to collapse. With the princess reuniting with her love, Mandala bids them well, and rides off in search of further adventure.
Heinousness?
Serial rapist, orders mass murder, etc.
Mitigating Qualities?
Zilch. she's just a greedy, vain sorceress and she's a Serial Rapist to extremes
Conclusion?
An easy keeper, and damn if this movie isn't fun
Sure to Lightysnake's candidates.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)Here. What a douche
everyone on this page.
The worst work for me was Mile 22. I was debating rewatching it in preparation for Axel's EP but I decided that I didn't want to torture myself.
It's not relevant, so I'll be quick about it...but Seagal's behavior is legendarily awful. Showboating around as a 'lawman' on a bust that was unnecessarily violent and killed a puppy is just the lightest. There are tons of allegations on him assaulting people physically, attacking stuntmen, and more on serial sexual harassment or even sexual assault and trafficking allegations.
Yes to both of Lighty's proposals.
I can understand when a previous Complete Monster gets redeeming qualities that are built up over time, but I swear, Star Wars is probably going to pull a Master Xehanort with Palpatine. Or make him made of evil.
It's like this: -insert fictional version of a real life tyrant here- was a horrible person but somehow in his own strange way, loved his family.
Edited by Klavice on Aug 27th 2019 at 8:04:30 AM
Funny you mention Palpatine
...
Fortunately, even if something DOES happen, his Legends incarnations would still keep.

As for CMs from horrible pieces of media, I'd say Messiah, Colonel Lawton and NazisAtTheCenterOfTheEarth!Josef Mengele are the absolute worst that i've proposed.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Aug 27th 2019 at 10:07:50 AM