Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#179151: Aug 20th 2019 at 10:06:08 AM

I guess I’ll add Alik to my kills page, he kills 22 people. Kinda disappointed that Stuart didn’t kill anyone personally.

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
VeryVileVillian (Apprentice)
#179152: Aug 20th 2019 at 10:07:24 AM

Die Hard writeups:

Die Hard 2: Colonel William Stuart is an anti-communist ex-military mercenary, who supported the politics of a cruel dictator and a drug lord General Ramon Esperanza. After General Esperanza was imprisoned by US and was prepared to be moved from South America to Washington Dulles International Airport to be placed in prison, he paid Stuart to gather up a squad of ex-soldiers and free him. To achieve this, he organized the takeover of the airport, take control of all airports' systems and then shut off towers landing systems, rending the planes above the airport, one of which carried McClane's wife, unable to land due the strong snowstorm. Holding entire airport hostage, Stuart became angry when airport tried to regain control of their systems, acting against his orders, in retaliation Stuart crashed one of the planes, called Windsor 114, which carried 230 people, by taking over their communication and misleading them about landing process. Killing several more people, Stuart determined to get his cash, at one point not even lifting a finger to help his old friend and partner Major Grant in his fight against McClane and being ready to cause hundreds of more deaths, if airport refuse to follow his demands.

A Good Day to Die Hard: Alik is a Russian mercenary, who was hired by corrupt Russian official Viktor Chagarin to kidnap Yuri Komarov from the court and extract from him the files, which contain compromising information about Chagarin. To this end, Alik sended several of his people to carry bombs near courthouse in cars, only to blow them up still with his henchmen inside, killing dozens of innocent people in the courthouse. When John McClane, Jr. has taken away Yuri from his grasp, Alik starts chasing him across the whole city, endangering countless lives and even killing several bystanders, laughing at all mayhem that was happening around him. Capturing Yuri, Alik tried to sadistically and slowly kill John McClane and John McClane, Jr., beating them for fun.

Die Hard Trilogy 2: Viva Las Vegas: Kenny Sinclair is a former NYPD cop and friend of John McClane, Kenny was always jealous of his seemingly endless luck and decided to kill him, taking control of Las Vegas along the way. Inviting John to his party in Mesa Grande Prison, Kenny organized a prison outbreak, which endangered the lives of dozens of innocent guests at the party, which also leads to deaths of several guards. Hiring mercenaries and ordering them to put bombs all over the city, Kenny also hired terrorists to try to unleash a biological virus in Las Vegas, at one point ordering his partner Reese Hoffman to send his secretary Elena Goshkin to lead the terrorists to try to blow up a city damp and poison the water supply.

Die Hard: Vendetta:

Piet Gruber is the son of Hans Gruber and a powerful businessman, who organized the stealing of several valuable painting, killing dozens of people along the way, solely to sell them to Japanese criminal lord Sumi Kazawa in exchange for prototype RDXS Ample rocket weapon, planning to threaten the city to destroy the Los Angeles International Airport with his weapon if they will not give him 1 billion dollars. As John McClane interferes with his plans and captures one of his associates, Piet leads attack on LAPD police station, killing countless innocent cops and then killing his associate, while also trying to blow up the police station itself.

Jack Frontier, originally known as Jack Frontslovsky, is a former CIA operative, who left the service to become an actor. After one of his movies flopped, Jack grow angry with the studious replacing him with another actor for "Galaxy Thief III". Disappearing for a while, Jack allied himself with Piet Gruber, helping him in his schemes, killing several people along the way and starting a gang war. Eventually betraying Piet, Jack leads an attack on Holmes Observatory in Hollywood at the premier of Galaxy Thief III, setting bombs all around and inside the building, planning to kill everyone there, simply as revenge for replacing him with another actor.

Die Hard: Year One: Alan Douglas is a hippie and eco-terrorist, who was a former employer of millioner Walden Ford, who grew jealous of his rich status and decided to rob him of his millions. Getting himself a mini-submarine, Alan orders his henchmen to take Walden Ford's yacht full of people in to hostage, using the fireworks during the 1976 bicentennial celebration over New York Harbor as a cover. As his men kills some innocent stuff inside the yacht, Alan extracts a large amount of money from Ford and orders his men to plant dynamites on the yacht, planning to blow it up, along with dozens of innocent people on it.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Aug 20th 2019 at 8:22:35 PM

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#179153: Aug 20th 2019 at 10:09:41 AM

I'll work on the Die Hard page later this week or this weekend.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#179154: Aug 20th 2019 at 10:10:17 AM

[up] What about EP from Die Hard Arcade?

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#179155: Aug 20th 2019 at 10:13:22 AM

I think he said he decided against it due to the villain being too generic. I love the game, but nothing screams CM material.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
VeryVileVillian (Apprentice)
#179156: Aug 20th 2019 at 10:13:49 AM

[up][up]I decided to not EP it. The villain is too generic and i admitted i based my assumption of him counting solely on "Fridge Horror" stuff of his actions.

Kinda disappointed that Stuart didn’t kill anyone personally.

Depends on what you define as "personally". Stuart did intentionally killed 230 people by misleading the plane, causing it to crash.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Aug 20th 2019 at 8:16:22 PM

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#179158: Aug 20th 2019 at 10:23:26 AM

Actually, I'll do this now:

  • Die Hard: Year One: Alan Douglas is a hippie and Eco-Terrorist, who was a former employer of millioner Walden Ford, before growing jealous of the latter's rich status and deciding to rob him of his millions. Getting himself a mini-submarine, Alan orders his henchmen to take Ford's yacht full of people hostage, using the fireworks during the 1976 bicentennial celebration over New York Harbor as a cover. As his men kill innocent staff inside the yacht, Alan extracts a large amount of money from Ford and orders his men to plant dynamites on the yacht, planning to blow it up, along with dozens of innocent people on it.

Edited by ACW on Aug 20th 2019 at 1:24:41 PM

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#179159: Aug 20th 2019 at 10:24:34 AM

[up][up][up]As in he ordered it, but didn't it himself, ie pulling a trigger. He had his Mook Thompson feed false information to Windsor 114 (if you're wondering who Thompson is, he's the henchman killed when John tries to intercept Esperanza on the tarmac). Kinda like Joffrey ordering Ned Stark's death but having Ilyn Payne behead him instead.

Edited by k410ren on Aug 20th 2019 at 1:25:08 PM

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
VeryVileVillian (Apprentice)
#179160: Aug 20th 2019 at 10:26:10 AM

[up]Well, Stuart did talked to the plane himself, misleading them and causing them to crash.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#179161: Aug 20th 2019 at 10:50:50 AM

[tup] to Wesson, Butler and Childress

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#179162: Aug 20th 2019 at 10:53:01 AM

Anyone got any quotes for die hard ?

Also I don't believe anyone coints in Marvel ultimate alliance 3. Thanos kinda reforms in the end. If you feel differently then go ahead with an ep

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#179163: Aug 20th 2019 at 10:58:16 AM

How about this for a quote?

"Do you hear that? Talk to me, where are my detonators? Where are they, or shall I shoot another one? Sooner or later, I might get to someone you do care about."
Hans Gruber, Die Hard

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#179164: Aug 20th 2019 at 11:03:55 AM

That could work. The photo will also be Hans...but this is one of those cases like Palpatine where I'm fine with the image and quote being the same character.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#179165: Aug 20th 2019 at 11:08:42 AM

[tup] to Comic!Dorian Tyrell, General Miroslav Lokar, Prince Agadon and Queen Tenefis , Colonel Wesson, Butler and Ben Childress.

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#179166: Aug 20th 2019 at 11:15:05 AM

Also, is it possible to update the quote on Obadiah Hakeswill to add a link to the recap page?

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#179167: Aug 20th 2019 at 11:17:59 AM

@ Lightysnake

While I have no write-ups pending, I'd just like to say that some tropers (like me) don't have English as their first language, for them it might not be just a matter of 5 minutes.

Edited by Forenperser on Aug 20th 2019 at 8:18:12 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#179168: Aug 20th 2019 at 11:19:50 AM

Speaking of Sharpe, I think we can eliminate the quotes at the end:

  • Sergeant Obadiah Hakeswill, from "Sharpe's Company" and "Sharpe's Enemy", lacks any of his book counterpart's redeeming qualities, however minor, while still maintaining his heinousness. Sharpe's Arch-Enemy, Hakeswill was a Sociopathic Soldier who was responsible for sentencing Sharpe to a flogging he knew would be a death sentence, before Sharpe was saved after receiving 200 lashes. An abusive bully to his men, Hakeswill regularly subjects soldiers to floggings to extort sexual favors from their wives and tries to rape Sharpe's wife Teresa. When Sharpe's best friend Harper stops him, Hakeswill frames him for a theft, resulting in his brutal flogging. Murdering one of his own soldiers to use his body as cover in the heat of battle, Hakeswill kills another soldier and tries to rape Teresa again. Hakeswill deserts the army before raping and murdering Sally Clayton, an innocent woman he's lusted after. Becoming the leader of a group of vicious bandits, Hakeswill waylays a group of noble women and is only stopped from raping them by warnings that it will damage the ransom value. When he learns Sharpe is bringing the ransom, Hakeswill doubles it at the last minute and allows his men to rape the non-noble women and tries to rape the nobles anyways. When Teresa stops him, Hakeswill fatally shoots her before being captured and facing the firing squad for his crimes.
  • Colonel Brand, from "Sharpe's Mission", is a double agent who starts his career by personally killing an injured British officer, then carrying him back to the British lines and being hailed as a hero for trying to save him. This is the first of several acts of so-called heroism arranged by his handler French Colonel Cressan, who wants Brand to lure Sharpe and Ross into a trap. Brand murders a Gypsy couple who saw him meeting Cressan, then slaughters a Gypsy camp in a failed attempt to kill the couple's daughter, who also witnessed the meeting. He leads his men in massacring a group of French ex-deserters set up by Cressan and given faulty gunpowder so they were effectively unarmed, making a point of sadistically garroting the one who ran furthest. Despite giving them the self-aggrandizing name Brand's Boys, he has no loyalty to his men, calmly telling Sharpe that he abandons anyone who is injured. Even after being exposed and arrested, he tries to convince Sharpe to let him and his men massacre a fort garrison who have also been set up Cressan. Smug, arrogant and believing himself invulnerable right up to the end, he can't resist taunting Sharpe.

EDIT: Come to think of it, I may just tweak the whole tree.

Edited by ACW on Aug 20th 2019 at 2:21:58 PM

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#179169: Aug 20th 2019 at 11:26:27 AM

Where are the quotes going to go?

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#179170: Aug 20th 2019 at 11:34:05 AM

The quote page I think would be good

Anyway I'm free tomorrow. So will write up my guys then. It's like 10 pm where I live currently and I don't have my laptop.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#179171: Aug 20th 2019 at 11:41:17 AM

I'm wondering about making an EP for Charlie Prince from the 2007 version of 3:10 to Yuma (2007). Is it worth it?

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#179172: Aug 20th 2019 at 11:56:29 AM

Doesnt charlie care about his boss Wade ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#179173: Aug 20th 2019 at 12:03:53 PM

Voila.

  • Sharpe:
    • Sharpe's Company & Sharpe's Enemy: Sergeant Obadiah Hakeswill lacks any of his book counterpart's redeeming qualities, however minor, while still maintaining his heinousness. Sharpe's Arch-Enemy, Hakeswill was a Sociopathic Soldier who was responsible for sentencing Sharpe to a flogging he knew would be a death sentence, before Sharpe was saved after receiving 200 lashes. An abusive bully to his men, Hakeswill regularly subjects soldiers to floggings to extort sexual favors from their wives and tries to rape Sharpe's wife Teresa. When Sharpe's best friend Harper stops him, Hakeswill frames him for a theft, resulting in his brutal flogging. Murdering one of his own soldiers to use his body as cover in the heat of battle, Hakeswill kills another soldier and tries to rape Teresa again. Hakeswill deserts the army before raping and murdering Sally Clayton, an innocent woman he's lusted after. Becoming the leader of a group of vicious bandits, Hakeswill waylays a group of noble women and is only stopped from raping them by warnings that it will damage the ransom value. When he learns Sharpe is bringing the ransom, Hakeswill doubles it at the last minute and allows his men to rape the non-noble women and tries to rape the nobles anyways. When Teresa stops him, Hakeswill fatally shoots her before being captured and facing the firing squad for his crimes.
    • Sharpe's Mission: Colonel Brand is a double agent who starts his career by personally killing an injured British officer, then carrying him back to the British lines and being hailed as a hero for trying to save him. This is the first of several acts of so-called heroism arranged by his handler French Colonel Cressan, who wants Brand to lure Sharpe and Ross into a trap. Brand murders a Gypsy couple who saw him meeting Cressan, then slaughters a Gypsy camp in a failed attempt to kill the couple's daughter, who also witnessed the meeting. He leads his men in massacring a group of French ex-deserters set up by Cressan and given faulty gunpowder so they were effectively unarmed, making a point of sadistically garroting the one who ran furthest. Despite giving them the self-aggrandizing name Brand's Boys, he has no loyalty to his men, calmly telling Sharpe that he abandons anyone who is injured. Even after being exposed and arrested, he tries to convince Sharpe to let him and his men massacre a fort garrison who have also been set up Cressan.
    • Sharpe's Peril: Colonel Count Vladimir Dragomirov is a cavalry commander in India, who also has a foothold in the opium trade. To cover his tracks, Dragomirov slaughters the village that had been growing the plants needed to make opium, as well as a garrison of British soldiers, leaving their commander tied up naked and Exposed to the Elements. Dragomirov and his men "save" a baggage train led by Colonel Richard Sharpe, but only to make scapegoats of a group of bandits opposing them. When Sharpe is separated from the baggage train along with Marie-Angelique, the fiancée of Dragomirov's dragon Major Philippe Joubert, Dragomirov threatens to have her gang-raped by his men unless Sharpe gives up the train, then has Sharpe tied up in a pit of snakes. When Sharpe and Marie-Angelique escape, Dragomirov pursues them to a village where the train has stopped, murders a priest that tries to dissuade him while telling the man "God does no work on a Sunday", and attacks the village with the intent of murdering everyone there. Greedy and treacherous, Dragomirov didn't care who he murdered as long as he gained something from it.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#179174: Aug 20th 2019 at 12:05:14 PM

[up][up]I took it more as an obsessive, slavish love like Bellatrix Lestrange's feelings for Voldemort. And by the end of the film, Wade's pretty disgusted with Charlie.

Edited by k410ren on Aug 20th 2019 at 3:06:54 PM

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#179175: Aug 20th 2019 at 12:06:59 PM

You have to really stretch for that. Wade undergoes genuine character development and he's largely angry Charlie unknowingly mortally wounded a man Ben ended up caring for and respected.

There's no argument I can see to make it so Charlie's care for Ben isn't redeeming.

Edited by Lightysnake on Aug 20th 2019 at 12:08:33 PM


Total posts: 326,048
Top