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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

JustSomeMouse Since: Jul, 2019
#177576: Aug 10th 2019 at 5:52:03 PM

well don't you think that a lot aren't very memorable (exceptions not withstanding)

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#177577: Aug 10th 2019 at 5:53:23 PM

We have, probably, literally thousands of CM's.

JustSomeMouse Since: Jul, 2019
#177578: Aug 10th 2019 at 5:53:54 PM

...I probably shouldn't have said that

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#177579: Aug 10th 2019 at 5:54:32 PM

This is not a CM "discuss whatever you want thread". If it's not pertinent to discussion, please don't derail.

JustSomeMouse Since: Jul, 2019
#177580: Aug 10th 2019 at 5:55:47 PM

sorry, I didn't really understand the thread at first. you can thump my comments.

Edited by JustSomeMouse on Aug 10th 2019 at 5:57:45 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#177581: Aug 10th 2019 at 6:00:43 PM

Before I forget [tup] to the Devour

Also going with Forspenser and vote [tdown] to Al Asad given that he doesn't seem heinous enough especially if you compare him with Imran and Makarov.

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
UltimateDemonBeast65 Since: Feb, 2018
#177582: Aug 10th 2019 at 6:06:04 PM

So yeah your namesake of a profile picture. I don't think he counts, unless you have any counter arguments. Like he has heinous qualities but he was a pawn in the end in my opinion.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#177583: Aug 10th 2019 at 6:59:15 PM

On an unrelated note, feel free to PM me on SSTTITD.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#177584: Aug 10th 2019 at 7:04:52 PM

Gladly, if I had a clue what SSTTITD is.

Edit: never mind I looked it up.

Edited by Beast on Aug 10th 2019 at 9:05:40 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#177585: Aug 10th 2019 at 7:24:23 PM

Just going to leave this here if you missed it. But if you guys still not convinced... Oh well

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#177586: Aug 10th 2019 at 7:31:03 PM

With Mary, I can see the argument Newton's made, but at the same time...it was fueled by negative emotions which granted it sentience. Count me as abstained.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#177587: Aug 10th 2019 at 7:37:35 PM

[tup] Devourer.

I look forward to Nerd's RWBY effortpost.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#177588: Aug 10th 2019 at 8:01:35 PM

Abstaining on Mary and al Sad.

Yes to Sonk, Hamegg, Romero and The Devourer, and Ahab.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#177589: Aug 10th 2019 at 8:03:53 PM

So any word on about what me and Elfen said about Mary? Also, there's another candidate from Death Mark I want to bring up. The main man responsible for horrific past of Hanahiko, the unnamed Principal.

Who is the Principal and what does he do?

The principal of H Elementary, he's revered as a high standing citizen for his work in education and ties to the government. However there is an air of mystery around, circulating nasty rumors that he's pedophile. Unfortunately, that rumor was true with the subject of his sexual advances being his adopted son. Hating how he subjects himself to feminine practices like putting on skirts or wearing make-up, the principal subjects him to "tutoring" in an underground room in his school at the middle of the night. Anyone who tried to report the principal were all threaten to stay quiet, due to his power and influence. This has been going for many years, which slowly and eventually killed the kid. Disposing the corpse and filing a missing person case, the principal abandons the school to hide himself away from the city and any possibility his crimes may come to light. Anyone murdered by the ghost of the child, now Hanahiko, were all covered by the principal to prevent his crime from ever coming out.

Heinousness:

An abusive parent who subjected his own adopted child to sexual assault for many years, culminating to the death of the boy after years of torment.

Mitigating Factor:

While the visual novel has a few rapist, like the gang members or the BDSM teacher, the principal blows them out of the water with the sheer length and brutality of his crime. He's been assaulting his own son for years and even end up killing him just out of his disagreement, and Tsukasa points out, trying to discipline him to fuel his own ego.

I'll admit the game doesn't outright say it was rape, but there are plenty of alludes to it. The sexual poses of Hanahiko which is very likely to express the own abuse he had to go through, the sweat stain bed underground where Hanahiko was "tutored", the fact Hanahiko is subjected to it late at night in a hidden room to hide his screams, and the rumors around the principal being a homosexual pedophile. With all these evidence, it's as close as confirmation without it being direct.

Final Verdict:

If Mary is ambiguous, this one is a pretty clear cut case. He's an absolute keeper.

Also, hopefully Mary can be push to being accepted again with my early argument, but I'll leave that to all of you.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#177591: Aug 10th 2019 at 8:14:37 PM

[tup] Principal.

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#177592: Aug 10th 2019 at 8:27:53 PM

I suppose I'll say yes to the characters I missed since my last post and switch to a yes for Mary.

@ SumDumNerd These guys looks like nice people.

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Aug 10th 2019 at 6:04:29 PM

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#177593: Aug 10th 2019 at 8:31:23 PM

[tup]Mary, Dev, and Principle

I was thinking of a header for the Star Fox franchise: Throughout the Star Fox Team's adventures, the following antagonists were the worst enemies the mercenaries have ever faced.

IPP Wick Check created.
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#177594: Aug 10th 2019 at 9:11:24 PM

[up] Do we even have enough candidates for a Starfox page?

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#177595: Aug 10th 2019 at 9:19:17 PM

[up]No. We only have four.

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#177596: Aug 10th 2019 at 9:30:53 PM

That doesn't matter if we have enough for a page or not.

I mean, there have been headers by works on the ABC pages(As in the alphabetical order).

Edited by MasterJoseph on Aug 10th 2019 at 9:34:22 AM

IPP Wick Check created.
creativename24 The Chefman Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: In bed with a green-skinned space babe
The Chefman
#177597: Aug 10th 2019 at 10:12:46 PM

I'm honestly half tempted to consider JD from the movie Heathers (the musical version of JD is a HARD no), but I feel like movie JD may not exactly count either. Should I sleep on it?

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#177598: Aug 10th 2019 at 10:16:43 PM

I don't think he counts, not by a long-shot. Even in the original the dude's an insane Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds and his motives and mindset aren't really played in a way that's conducive for the trope.

creativename24 The Chefman Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: In bed with a green-skinned space babe
The Chefman
#177599: Aug 10th 2019 at 10:18:56 PM

Fair enough. Would he be a Knight of Cerebus instead?

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#177600: Aug 10th 2019 at 10:38:35 PM

To save Fried Warthog an EP should they choose to do so, given it's been translated, Cosney Megundal from Dai Gyakuten Saiban or The Great Ace Attorney 1 fails the Heinous standard and Hart Vortex is a Graceful Loser Damon Gant expy so neither count.

Edited by Klavice on Aug 10th 2019 at 10:39:41 AM


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