During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Sorry to sound impatient, but which characters are getting cut when the cleanup happens (aside from Majd Addin and Podrakes)
Edited by JustSomeMouse on Aug 10th 2019 at 12:11:15 PM
Roth was already cut
also weren't Imran Zakhaev and Monique Deveraux also getting the ax
Edited by JustSomeMouse on Aug 10th 2019 at 12:36:19 PM
Sorry for the wait but here's Al-Asad
What's the Work?
Modern Warfare is a trilogy of games in the Call of Duty series. The first game follows american and british forces as they fight a group known as the Four Horsemen Imran Zakhaev, his son Victor, Vladimir Makarov, and Khaled Al-Asad.
Who is Al-Asad and what does he do?
Khaled Al-Asad is the leader of the OpFor, a revolutionary group in an unnamed Middle Eastern country that has recently staged a violent revolution and taken over the country. He accomplished this with the aid of Zakhaev, who provided him with weapons in order to draw attention away from a Civil War in Russia that Zakhaev is using to gain power. His first appearance comes in the level "The Coup" where the player is given limited control of President Yasir Al-Fulani, who Al-Asad deposed, as he is driven through the streets, along the way we see the full horror of the revolution. People are being killed by his soldiers in great amounts, there are raids on houses, and dogs are used to attack people. At the end of the mission, Imran gives him a gun and he executes Al-Fulani on National Television.
Al-Asad's rule is considered a danger to the entire political landscape of the Middle East and so they quickly attack the OpFor driving them back. The initially believe that he is hiding in a TV station but that was a distraction to throw them off. After this the Americans stage an assault on the capital city of the country however instead of finding Al-Asad, they find a nuclear bomb created by Imran which is detonated before it can be defused, killing around 30,000 American troops, the remnants of the OpFor in the city, and any remaining civillians in the city. After this the S.A.S. learn that he has been hiding in Azerbaijan, track him down in order to learn about his benefactor and Captain Price kills him after intercepting a call from Imran and recognizing him.
Redeeming Qualities?
None really, he talks a big game about wanting to escape from "foreign oppression" but he's working with three foreigners and he kills many of his own people.
Heinousness?
Here's where there may be an issue with him. I'll start with the nuke since that's where most of the issue lies. Initially, it's believed that Al-Asad detonated the nuke, but the third game shows Makarov giving the order to someone who calls him. It's not made clear who he's on the phone with him but it may be Al-Asad it may not be. To me it doesn't matter that much if he was the one to push the button or not, considering the circumstances, Al-Asad almost definitely knew what was going to happen, and even if he didn't at the time, he clearly didn't care considering he refused to give Imran's name to Price.
Aside from that I think that he holds up pretty well compared to Zakhaev and Makarov. He's likely killed thousands before we get to the nuke, which holds up pretty well considering he doesn't have access to nukes in the same way the other two do. They both have nuclear weapons that they are willing to use for their own gain and access to far more powerful weapons than Al-Asad had before they supplied the revolution. They also have more screen time than Al-Asad and have further reaching goals than just conquering the unnamed country, they both want to make Russia like it used to be as the soviet union and make it the dominant superpower in the world, with Makarov wanting to straight up conquer the whole world. Finally, even though he was mostly a puppet of Zakhaev, who holds most of the power in the relationship, it's clear that he's doing the revolution for his own gain and that Imran simply enabled his horrible desires for power.
Conclusion?
I say he still keeps.
Al-Asad
Alright, here goes my first EP
What is the Work
Epic Battle Fantasy is a series of flash games with a main series with 5 games and some spin-offs. The main series is a series of Eastern RPGs that are self-admittedly light-hearted and silly most of the time and they are full of Shout Outs, lampshades and cats. My candidate is the Big Bad of the fifth and likely final game in the series: The Devourer
.
Who is The Devourer?
The Devourer is a Reality Warper that created the universe (which he calls a simulation) and desires everything in it to be mindless and obedient to his laws. The protagonists of this series have free will induced by the real life player, and thus, The Devourer wants to get rid of them. While he only appears in the final battle, his presence is felt throughout the game through the Cosmic Monoliths, machines which act as The Devourer's eyes and influence on the Earth since he exists in another dimension. The Cosmic Monoliths are stated to corrupt all beasts around them, indirectly making The Devourer responsible for the enemies in this game. Nothing particularly interesting regarding the monoliths happens until later on, in Redpine Town
Redpine Town, due to influence from the Monoliths and the monsters, has been turned red (and it's stated that it isn't the Autumn season) and there's hardly anyone there. There's a sign outside Redpine saying "population rapidly decreasing" and the town has many graves, which are stated to be recent. Right next to Redpine Town is The Rapture, a location formed by a meteor strike caused by The Devourer's Cosmic Gigalith, which acts as the central core of the Cosmic Monoliths. Nothing contributing here happens until later, when the party enters The Beyond, where the Cosmic Gigalith is located
After the Cosmic Gigalith is destroyed, The Devourer reveals his hideous self, thus starting the boss battle. During the battle, he states that he reveals his motives, and then brings up the real life player, calling you an abomination and asking the protagonists if they can trust you. He soon after says he can't harm you, but he can destroy the protagonists, leaving you with no avatars, intending to win over and over again until you quit the game. After that, the Devourer reveals that he not only erased the party's memories of the previous games, but also that he created Akron and Godcat to do what he wanted to do, meaning that he has been trying to kill the protagonists since Epic Battle Fantasy 3
Also, for some more specifics, Akron created a black hole with his powers and stated that "all life must come to an end" during his boss battle. Basically, The Devourer made Akron to destroy the universe just to kill 3 people. And Godcat wanted to Kill All Humans just so the Devourer could dispose of 4 people.
Back on topic, Devourer states that he will always be able to reset the world. The next reveal is about the Monoliths and how they were made as a defense system for him to use and summon him if it failed. And he's always been watching you since you started the game.
And eventually, The Devourer does his worst action: deleting the Earth and everything on it while telling the heroes to "take one last look at it before it's gone." Eventually though, he is defeated, and the Earth's deletion is reversed. But the Devourer makes one last threatening speech, saying that he's found a way into Real Life, and eventually, "[he] will finally meet you"
Mitigating Factors? Freudian Excuse?
The Devourer has no Freudian Excuse. He simply wants everything he created to go exactly the way he wants it to.
No, the Devourer is not a Generic Doomsday Villain. He shows himself to be a hateful creature. Here are some of his quotes:
"THIS IS THE 5TH TIME I HAVE RAN THIS SIMULATION. EACH TIME YOU HAVE INTERFERED AND CORRUPTED THE BALANCE. DO YOU NOT TIRE OF BEING A NUISANCE?"
"MY DESIRE IS TO CREATE A CLOCKWORK UNIVERSE, POPULATED BY MINDLESS AUTOMATONS. PERFECTLY DETERMINISTIC. WITHOUT RANDOM VARIABLES. ONLY LAWS OF NATURE, OBEYED WITHOUT QUESTION. THIS CANNOT HAPPEN WHILE YOU EXIST AND ACT FREELY"
"YOU CONCIOUS BEINGS ARE A DISEASE: A VIRUS THAT SPREADS AND CONSUMES EVERYTHING IT TOUCHES. YOU INTRODUCE UNCERTAINTIES INTO MY SYSTEM. A BUTTERFLY EFFECT OF CHAOS AND UNREASON. YOU OBEY NO RULES. RESPECT NO LAWS"
"IT'S DONE. YOUR HOME WORLD IS GONE FOREVER. FADE AWAY ALONG WITH IT, INTO THE ENDLESS SCRAP-HEAP OF THE VOID
DISINTEGRATE BEFORE ME, BYTE BY BYTE"
(yes, he did say all these in all caps)
While the series is often comedic, and many enemies have comical traits, The Devourer has none. Admittedly, the Redpine graveyard is Played for Laughs, but everything else is not
While The Devourer is an Eldritch Abomination, nothing suggests he's Made of Evil or running on Orange-and-Blue Morality
Heinousness?
Easy pass. As The Devourer created Akron and Godcat with the purpose of them doing evil, he is responsible for their actions and thus, is responsible for every omnicidal action. That, and he actually succeded in destroying the world, a first for the series. While the players do have access to a Kill Sat and a Nuke as Limit Breaks, those don't harm the environment for some reason.
Conclusion?
I would say yes, but you decide
Edited by KingofNightmares on Aug 10th 2019 at 1:32:32 AM
"It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times?"Hey, everybody! I'm back!
(Collective screaming of fear and disgust from every troper here)
So I promised I'd pop back in to cover RWBY: After the Fall when I got my hands on a copy. Well, I did, I read it, and it was... pretty good. Not phenomenal, but really solid and fun. But that's not what you ant to hear. You want to hear if there are any Complete Monsters in it. The answer? Maybe.
Now, the reveal of who the villains are is a big spoiler, so yeah... don't read this if you don't want the book spoiled.
So there are two villains in After the Fall, and both of them have no mitigating factors, no Freudian excuses, and the acts they commit are pretty unique for the RWBY universe: human and Faunus trafficking, where they are hired to kidnap people (including children) with powerful or beneficial Semblances and sell them to their boss for money. The kicker? They're a Huntsman and a Huntress. Instead of using their skills to fight Grimm or criminals, they became criminals. They are given a target by their boss, then join up with whatever group their target is a part of and pretend to be "good" Huntsmen and Huntresses, fighting off Grimm, serving as bodyguards, etc. However, they then lure their target away from the others, beat them, subdue them, and kidnap them before taking them back to their boss for their paycheck. In After the Fall, they target a child from a Vacuo tribe who has the Semblance of amplifying people's negative emotions, which can attract Grimm. On top of trying to do the standard "lure him away" gimmick, they also allow his Semblance to attract Grimm so they can fight them and maintain their cover while allowing some of the potential witnesses to be killed off in the attacks. When Team CVFY (Coco Adel, Velvet Scarlatina, Fox Alistar, And Yatsuhashi Daichi) end up figuring them out, they decide to kill the entire tribe, including their target, by using one of their Semblances to create a sandstorm.
So they sound pretty bad right? But the issue comes from the heinous standard. It's RWBY. We have terrorists, warlords, mercenaries, and corrupt officials out the wazoo. Yeah they may have different resources than Salem, Cinder, and the rest of the faction, but they've still got steep competition. That and, while they do traffic and try to kill people (and it's implied they've done so before), they don't succeed in taking any lives or getting away with any people in the book.
So I'm split. They have all the markings of irredeemable Complete Monsters, but the fact that they fail to kill anybody "onscreen" and the jacked-up heinous standard make it difficult. If you read the overview and think they stand out enough, I'll happily do a writeup, as they are both despicable. If not, then we'll leave it at this.
Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here

Ahab.
Why so serious?