During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Closest thing I can think to a villain regressing to a GDV is Ezekial Rage from Real Adventures of Jonny Quest. He starts out with this actual tragic backstory before being flanderized into a one-note destructive sadist whose gimmick is that he can never die. Not quite a GDV, particularly as the backstory is never really decanonized, but the excuse stops factoring into what he becomes after a point.
Fair enough, there is always a judgment call, it depends on how much active harm is being done to these souls. With Cosmos, we have a zombie say they live in eternal torment. There is another villain who has a similar M.O, the Soul Catcher, it steals the souls of dead children and gains power from their presence in his underground lair. Does the act of imprisoning these children's souls in of itself enough to count? He will punish children if they try to escape but mostly seems content with them just milling about his underground lair.
The problem is 'stealing the souls' sounds worse than it is. He just kinda...keeps them around. No torture, no And I Must Scream, just "Mwahahaha, you are mine."
Yeah that's the issue with the Soul Catcher and the Water Demon, they do not seem to go the extra step of tormenting these souls. I think its more spelled out with Cosmos that keeping the town's people alive as zombies is actively tormenting them. Its why I did not want to propose the Water demon.
I think the Soul Catcher is somewhat more repulsive than the Water Demon, but neither go the extra mile.
Heck I think the Grundel has a similar M.O, but I think he is more proactive and creepy, beyond trying to turn kids into Grundel creatures, he tries to kill kids in 2 different situations (nearly killing several at a school gym) and wants to kill and torment Kylie for fun, which is outside his parasite nature. So I think you have to go the extra mile with some of these low-level Ghostbuster villains.
@ PureGrainAlkaSeltzer, so that is why I am not proposing the water demon, not quite unique enough for this comic and not proactive enough as a villain.
Edited by Overlord on Aug 7th 2019 at 7:42:08 AM
I'll handle the comics Gozer in the future but in case if people want to make a page... Think this quote from Shandor might help a little bit:
"I am the Destructor. I am the Architect. I will pave over your fields to start anew. I will fill your seas with concrete and stone. I will pierce your world with girders of steel and panes of glass. I will crush your world under the weight of my cities. I will smother your creation under my own!"
Also, image proposal again: Hamdo
.
Thoughts?
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Aug 7th 2019 at 10:01:50 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
There is another shot in the episode where he has his hand over her mouth, but I do wonder if that just seems like a typical villain trying to kill the hero shot, rather then someone who has stalked and psychologically tormented Kylie as a child and plans to now murder her for fun. It might be one of those things that only works in the context of the episode.
Late night post! And it's a special one for me. My first ever DC EP.
What Is the Work?
Batman. What can be said about him that hasn't been said already? Well, aside from the fact that there’s a shitload of stories about the caped crusader and his numerous gallery of rogues. Two of whom involve the supernatural. Yep, vampires, werewolves, and zombies. I should’ve probably saved this for Halloween, but screw it.
In these stories, both Batman and Superman team up to fight monsters. All of whom are connected to one man.
Who Is he?
Professor Herbert Combs, appearing in Superman and Batman vs. Vampires and Werewolves & Batman vs. The Undead (both written by Kevin Van Hook; the latter story's located in Batman Confidential Issues #44-48), is an evil scientist obsessed with the concept of death, hoping to unlock the secrets of the Land of the Undead and become its ruler, where he’ll turn the Earth into a graveyard of destruction.
What has he done?
At first an unassuming scientist, it doesn’t take long to reveal Combs as a psychopath with a love of human experimentation. After discovering that the works of Lovecraft were based on true events, Combs decided to investigate a portal to the land of the dead, but instead he came across the Land of the Undead by mistake, where he would use the undead creatures' blood (or just kidnap one of the creatures himself) to turn people into dangerous, undead creatures themselves. He would kidnap innocent men, women, and children, turning them into vampires and werewolves for his own curiosity. His laboratory basement is even full of his many, many victims.
Some of his victims include Russian Mobsters Dimeter—turned into a vampire—and his friend Janko—turned into a werewolf; this is despite the fact that Dimeter treated him like a friend and allowed him to experiment with the dead. At one point, he hands Dimeter a little girl to feed on in order to make him give in to his newfound vampire diet, which Dimeter regrettably does. He even uses their blood to turn others into monsters. These monsters are let loose, killing countless innocents, including an entire hospital. He summons a weird-looking monster from his mouth (which apparently is a portal to the land of the undead) that kills his assistant, but it’s taken care of by Superman.
At one point, Superman saves the life of a child named Chadd Cole, who was about to be killed by a vampire before being saved by Supes. Superman tells Chadd to go to the nearest house and go inside for help as he takes care of the oncoming werewolves. As it turns out, that house belonged to Combs, who turns Chadd into a vicious vampire. Later, Combs sends out an army of vampires and werewolves to kill Batman, Superman, Green Arrow, Janko, Dimeter, and Jason Blood. Once he’s been found, he rants about how Batman must hate him because he lost loved ones, but he’s interrupted by Jason Blood and taken to Arkham Asylum, where Combs happily plots his new scheme.
Escaping Arkham Asylum, he would travel to New Orleans and become a student of Mama Ezili, assisting her in her plan to turn the world into a zombie wasteland, with Combs planning to take control of the undead army for his own means. Seeking to become a Voodoo scientist, he Infiltrates a museum containing loads of corpses and mummies, where Combs impales the museum owner’s head with his cane. Noticing that Batman and Dimeter are in the museum, Combs decapitates “Andy’s” head and uses it to perform blood magic, which brings all the dead inside back to life, sic’ing them all on the duo. Later, Combs, knowing that Batman, Dimeter, and Janko are in a prison, sends his zombies out to kill them. During the commotion, Combs uses glamour to pose as Dimeter and kidnaps Dimeter’s girlfriend Olivia, promising to return her to Dimeter should he come and get her at Corto Maltese. See, Combs and Ezili plan to resurrect a powerful magician to complete their plan, needing a vampire to complete the summoning: Combs, of course, decides to use Dimeter.
Noticing that Batman and Superman are after him in the Bat jet, he tells the armed forces that they’re terrorists and has missiles fired at them. Zombies are resurrected thanks to the shaman’s magic ritual, all of whom are under Combs’ control. With his first act, Combs has an innocent man, who’s eyes and mouth are sewn shut, tossed into a slimy, poisonous snake pit and converted into a zombie slave of his own. Once Batman crashes the ritual party, Combs has him tossed into the pit to be made into his new slave, bragging how he’s now his new slave as his eyelids and mouth are getting sewn together. While trying to resurrect a mummy to become the general in his zombie army, Superman pops out of the mummy’s bandages, and Batman, now better, punches Combs, with Superman taking him back to Arkham Asylum.
Redeeming Qualities?
At one point in Vampires and Werewolves, he brings up a possible loved one he’s been trying to get together with in the Land of the Undead, hence why he wants to find the secret to the undead. All of that hinting of a possible redeeming quality is quickly forgotten in The Undead, where Combs just wants to rule the world because he’s a dick, and that supposed loved one is never brought up again. Even the narration says that it could have been “The ramblings of a psychotic brain.” So all in all, Combs has zero in the way of redeeming qualities, and was most likely using some made up story as a way to avoid jail time and justify his reasoning for murdering and experimenting on people.
That, or crappy writing. You decide.
Heinousness?
By now everyone should know about the jacked heinous standard regarding Batman. The duology plays fast and loose with canon; could be a story set within the main continuity, could be it's own separate universe. However, even if it is all set within regular canon, I still think Combs would count. Experimenting with the supernatural is pretty unique to the Batman mythos, and he has a bodycount most likely in the hundreds given how long he’s been doing this, and for how many vampires and werewolves are shown.
Conclusion
I think he’s a keeper.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Aug 7th 2019 at 10:51:08 AM
It's Spooky Month!

Yes to the TMNT villains, Masteron, Red Skull and Chambers.
Villains do not have to be interesting to be a CM, I think MCU Red Skull is dull compared his comic book counterpart and I despise the Fallen because I think Transformers Revenge of the Fallen is one of the worst movies I have ever seen, but they both count. the TMNT movie villains not being the best villains around does not stop from counting. I heard they are rebooting anyway:
https://www.slashfilm.com/ninja-turtles-reboot/
Heck, I think it would be fun if Mr. Null was the villain of a movie, he is a demon and corporate tycoon.
No the farmer.
Here is my write up for Mr. Cosmos:
So should make a Ghostbusters page right away or try to find some other GB monsters to add to it? Some people seem to think IDW Gozer may count. There are some UK Marvel Real Ghostbusers comics, but that series lasted almost 200 issues and I am not sure if anyone else in the cartoons counts, given how the heinous the standard is (someone like the Grundel or the Piper counts due to being more low level then the world ending villains that appear in these cartoons.)
Edit: I do not think anyone can develop into a GDV, a character either is or is not that trope.
Shinzon from Star Trek Nemesis is listed as GDV, but I think that is wrong, his problem is motives change all the time, not that he doesn't have any. I would propose the character as a CM, but he is a hot mess. It seems like the writers write him as a Anti-Villain in one scene and a Complete Monster in another, so I can see why people may confuse him a GDV, but no, he is just a crappy character.
Does this image of the Grundel grabbing Kylie work or is it too vague?
[1]
Edited by Overlord on Aug 7th 2019 at 5:52:02 AM