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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#177001: Aug 7th 2019 at 2:57:18 PM

By all means list Shredder as a Flat Character though.

Man, when Shredder has the least personality you're doing something wrong.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#177002: Aug 7th 2019 at 2:57:36 PM

@miraculous: That's fine. Shredder in the sequel and Shredder in the first film are the same person, and the Shredder in the sequel isn't close to being a GDV. Even though he was also bland. They didn't make him a walking Transformer though, so that's vast improvement by default.

Also Happy Birthday, Bullman. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaay. ...It's today right? Or was it yesterday? Belated happy birthday? I know my coworker's birthday was today. I think. Or was hers yesterday?

...Oh fuck it. You get confetti anyway.

-explodes confetti poppers in your face-

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#177003: Aug 7th 2019 at 2:59:10 PM

Yes to Masterson as well.

That's a thought. Can a GDV stop being one in a later work and thus still be listed on the GDV page or is that too confusing?

Edited by PolarPhantom on Aug 7th 2019 at 11:01:18 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#177004: Aug 7th 2019 at 3:04:19 PM

[tup] Masterson.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#177005: Aug 7th 2019 at 3:07:23 PM

@PolarPhantom: That's just too damn confusing. If the character in question is canon in both the original and sequel, and they show more personality in the sequel, scratch it altogether. It's no different from when someone doesn't count as a CM, but then they do in the sequel—or vice versa. Robert Baxter is a clear cut example of someone who started off as The Hero for a dynamic duo, then switched to being a Complete Monster. For some reason.

[down] No, he was. It's just nothing in the second game whatsoever foreshadowed this, so it feels like a Shocking Swerve.

Edited by Tyk5919 on Aug 7th 2019 at 6:11:20 AM

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#177006: Aug 7th 2019 at 3:08:30 PM

Apparently Baxter was Evil All Along I think ?

Game revel sounds confusing.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#177008: Aug 7th 2019 at 3:11:20 PM

[tup] Chris the Killer Cop. What are The Cutting Room villain(s) like?

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#177009: Aug 7th 2019 at 3:14:03 PM

And a yep to all of the candidates I missed with the exception on Georgie's candidates. Great job guys!

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#177011: Aug 7th 2019 at 3:34:54 PM

And with that, I'll give the TMNT baddies a 'Yep' vote. Thanks for the help, Tyk!

@ACW: The Cutting Room villains are really the snuff club as a whole, there isn't a Big Bad like the other two had. The most prominent villains are Bantling himself when he escapes prison, and the snuff club duo Reid and Smythe, who rape women then torture them to death with acid and burn off their lips, the soles of their feet, etc. But, along with only having about 4 confirmed victims, Smythe dies with very little character to him, and Reid—who has a very good chance of counting due to him being the more prominent one of the two and his extra implied crimes, and will likely get a discussion once I read Nemesis—is still on the loose and, at the moment, doesn't fully cross the heinous standard with his absolutely-committed crimes.

Edited by Ravok on Aug 7th 2019 at 3:35:19 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#177013: Aug 7th 2019 at 3:44:17 PM

[tup] Masterson. Abstain on the narrator.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#177014: Aug 7th 2019 at 3:44:30 PM

[tup] to Dr. Gregory Chambers, Eric Sacks, the Shredder, Commander Krang and Chris Masterson.

Happy Birthday Bullman.

JustSomeMouse Since: Jul, 2019
#177015: Aug 7th 2019 at 3:46:08 PM

On the villains wiki, Abigail Williams was listed and I'm just wondering if she was ever discussed here (I know villains wiki isn't very accurate, I'm just curious)

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#177016: Aug 7th 2019 at 3:47:59 PM

Very well then Tyk. Too confusing indeed.

...Can someone devolve into a GDV though?

OK, now I'm confusing myself.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#177017: Aug 7th 2019 at 3:48:10 PM

[tup] to CJ Duo.

Also, happy birthday Bullman! :)

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#177018: Aug 7th 2019 at 3:48:21 PM

[up][up][up]Yes, but she was rejected on the grounds of no one standing out in the play.

Edited by AustinDR on Aug 7th 2019 at 3:49:01 AM

DelphineTheDelphox I thought sharks were my friends. from The Alola Region Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I thought sharks were my friends.
#177019: Aug 7th 2019 at 3:49:08 PM

[up][up][up][up] I know her incarnation from Murdered: Soul Suspect is on the list, but the original version doesn't seem that heinous, really.

EDIT: Wow, triple [nja]!

Edited by DelphineTheDelphox on Aug 7th 2019 at 3:50:18 AM

RIP KissAnime.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#177020: Aug 7th 2019 at 3:49:29 PM

[up][up][up] I...don't think that's possible?

JustSomeMouse Since: Jul, 2019
#177021: Aug 7th 2019 at 3:51:42 PM

just a question, what does [nja] mean? I never understood (new here, I know)

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#177022: Aug 7th 2019 at 3:53:21 PM

Ninja'd...as in, someone answered before you.

lrrose Since: Jul, 2009
#177023: Aug 7th 2019 at 4:35:51 PM

[tup]TMMT baddies, CJ Townsend baddies, Le Crime narrator
[tdown]Farmer

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#177024: Aug 7th 2019 at 4:49:24 PM

[tup] Skull, Chambers, Eric, Shredder, Kraang, Narrator and Masterson

[tdown] Farmer

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss

Total posts: 326,048
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