During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
to God and Satan. I agree, non-sapient creatures shouldn't affect the heinous standard.
Detwiler and Momberg's entry needs a quick fix. Phil Burton's name is actually Phil BRUNTON. I also added a bit in about Momberg being a war criminal.
- Designated Survivor: Garrett Detwiler and Wouter Momberg, both from season 3, are a pharmaceutical CEO and South African biochemist, respectively. Detwiler and Phil Brunton hire Momberg, a war criminal, to synthesize a biotoxin specifically for the purpose of infecting minorities and creating a mass sterilization so that the white demographic will be significantly higher in future elections. Detwiler also has a drug approved for one of his companies that he knows increases dependency so he can also have another sold that stops it. They have Aryans work on the toxin, and a scientist is fatally wounded and then burned alive when infected. In order to test the biotoxin, an OBGYN clinic that takes all minorities is targeted among others. Momberg then murders the Aryans and fatally poisons now CIA Agent Hannah Wells to cover their tracks, gleefully taunting her as she lays dying, and then later murders a scientist who catches onto him. When caught, he releases instructions for creating the toxin online and threatens FBI with the toxin, claiming infection is fatal.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jul 29th 2019 at 1:14:23 AM
God and Satan, even though I hate that trope with a passion.
I assume God doesn't count in the Bible due to canonical redeeming qualities? Not that I think he would anyways.
Happy 7000 pages, btw.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Jul 29th 2019 at 4:14:23 AM
Yeah, that's not a road we wanna go down, at ALL
Lighty, who's your avatar again?
If we make it so non-sapients don't affect the heinous standard, I guess that means Crossed could be back on the table, if anyone wants it. I'd do it (I like Ennis's works; gorn doesn't bother me much), but Archive Panic.
Edited by ACW on Jul 29th 2019 at 4:20:11 AM
Oh good. We're at lucky number 7000 now.
-explodes confetti poppers everywhere-
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
I mean, you've mentioned your To-Do list and letting someone trim it four times now. I think if there was something up there someone else was super super passionate about, it would've come up.
@ACW: I think the reason why everyone was cut from Crossed was less because the non-sapient antagonists affected the heinous standard, and more because the human cast jacked up the heinous standard altogether, kinda like The Walking Dead.
Like you, I've thought about getting into Crossed. But there's a lot of volumes. And my To-Do List is big enough as is.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.![]()
I've read Crossed and i can confirm.
Deep down, every human is just as evil as the Crossed themselves. Aside from a particularly disturbing Story Arc which focuses on a serial killer/rapist having "fun" with his own friends, even the "normal" protagonists kill children because they couldn't afford to take care of them. Humans Are Bastards indeed.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Jul 29th 2019 at 5:48:15 AM
Quoting 43110 when this came up before.
Appenrlty even world ending
has been done before.
So yeah......
Also Im not sure this new rule not to tkae animals into account would actually void the crossed not contributing to the heinous standard as apperntly there are indeed intelligent crossed who can think. So....
Edited by miraculous on Jul 29th 2019 at 2:01:39 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
