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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#174051: Jul 23rd 2019 at 4:15:51 PM

Do they have any redeeming qualities?

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#174052: Jul 23rd 2019 at 4:18:19 PM

Effortpost them. Before you do, make sure they have no redeeming qualities, and make sure they are sufficiently heinous.

Side note, nice to meet you Irene.

Itasio Since: Feb, 2016
#174053: Jul 23rd 2019 at 4:18:21 PM

None, and they even used their disguise to convince someone to give their child to them for further experiments

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#174054: Jul 23rd 2019 at 4:19:28 PM

Ok, lay it on us.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#174055: Jul 23rd 2019 at 4:19:43 PM

Seems heinous enough at least.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#174056: Jul 23rd 2019 at 4:23:57 PM

Oh Warthog, I encourage as warmly as I can. I hope it's not too much of a slog to get through though.

To be clear I've only seen the last episode which was... Something.

Edited by PolarPhantom on Jul 23rd 2019 at 12:24:58 PM

Itasio Since: Feb, 2016
#174057: Jul 23rd 2019 at 4:25:49 PM

I can't post it right now, where can I find the saved drafts? :c

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#174058: Jul 23rd 2019 at 4:32:58 PM

It doesn't look like you've made an update to the Drafts...

Itasio Since: Feb, 2016
#174059: Jul 23rd 2019 at 4:41:13 PM

I did it yesterday by clicking on "Save Draft" on the bottom left, but I didn't find it anywhere afterwards, nor in the existing sandbox pages

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#174060: Jul 23rd 2019 at 4:43:40 PM

[tup] Everybody from the Dragon Quest duo to here, except for Gabriel.

Itasio Since: Feb, 2016
#174061: Jul 23rd 2019 at 4:47:53 PM

Ok, seems like I got a little carried away by the rules at the top of the administrivia page: I was mostly focused on the bold text, which didn't directly mention "No Loved Ones". It is mentioned in the folders on the bottom though.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#174062: Jul 23rd 2019 at 4:48:19 PM

Oh, you probably typed over it. When you hit save draft, what's there should be there next time you make a post.

Yeah: Loves ones, standards, well-intentioned, etc...all of that is disqualifying.

Edited by ACW on Jul 23rd 2019 at 7:53:01 AM

Keshali Since: Jul, 2019
#174063: Jul 23rd 2019 at 4:49:56 PM

Remember way back when I said I'd do one for the extremely underated furry visual novel that is almost entirely plot with only one route having porn so don't worry about it called Echo?

Who is he?

James Hendricks (a ram) was a wealthy business man that lived in the eponymous town of Echo in the 1910s. He also happened to be a serial killer and pedophile. When the town's folks found out about the child corpses, James scapegoated his own lover John (who, being a desert fox, was analogous to a Native American), having him lynched.

Flashforward one century later, and James' ghost possesses his descendent Carl in the route where he is the love interest, just as John possesses his descendent Jenna. James alters Carl's behaviour and makes him have a relationship with Chase (the protagonist) quite possibly against Carl's own willnote  for the express purpose of manipulating him and help him defeat John. Eventually he settles on sending the gang to a spirit dimmension where he intends to kill them, and is only unable to do so thanks to John's interference and our heroes finding out the whole story, banishing James' spirit in the proccess.

James may also be the antagonist of the T.J. route, where a spiritual entity possesses Chase and makes him possessive of T.J. and violent, all to put him in a situation where he'd be forced to be the spirit's pawn and kill Flynn for seemingly no reason. The possession fits right with James' modus operandi, but it isn't 100% explicit.

Heinousness Standard

Of all the supernatural things going on in Echo, James is the most unambiguously malevolent and certainly passes the crime base line.

Mitigating Factors

Given that the town drives everyone crazy there could be moral agency issues, but given John (who remains fully sane and decent) that sounds like a weak excuse.

Veredict ?

Edited by Keshali on Jul 23rd 2019 at 4:50:53 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#174064: Jul 23rd 2019 at 4:58:35 PM

Leaning yes on James.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
UltimateDemonBeast65 Since: Feb, 2018
#174066: Jul 23rd 2019 at 5:29:27 PM

Has anyone discussed Scooby Apocalypse in this thread yet?

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#174067: Jul 23rd 2019 at 5:31:27 PM

@UDB Yep... Ravok was the dude who brought the candidates up and said no one counts.

Also, sure to James.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#174068: Jul 23rd 2019 at 5:37:11 PM

[tup] James Hendricks. The Ram with a Fox Lover.

Watch me destroying my country
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#174070: Jul 23rd 2019 at 6:02:30 PM

No to the Major Gabriel Kaburaya, but sure to James Hendricks.

@ Kylotrope Thanks!

@ futuremoviewriter But ultimately, if that's the case, she doesn't count as a Hate Sink, since a Hate Sink was supposed to be hated. Here, looks more like Unintentionally Unsympathetic.

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Jul 23rd 2019 at 3:04:37 PM

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#174071: Jul 23rd 2019 at 6:06:00 PM

[tup]to James

Edited by G-Editor on Jul 23rd 2019 at 3:06:40 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
IukaSylvie from Kyoto, Japan Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
speyeker Since: Jan, 2001
Mimic45 Since: Feb, 2017
#174074: Jul 23rd 2019 at 6:30:25 PM

A late [tup] to Scopes. I remember this cartoon, I watched some episodes when I was a kid...

I tried to rewrite the 666 villains' entries. I hope this is better, though it probably could still need a few improvements...

  • Balsa is an ambitious and cold-blooded STEA member, and Cross's second in command on the Shin. In his first scene, Balsa sacrifices his own soldiers to test his enemies' firepower, and gets increasingly worse during his following appearances. While on a mission in Rock Bird City, Balsa activates Shin's most dangerous weapon Zoru, which consumes the souls of his crew members and countless innocent citizens, in order to destroy the entire city in an attempt to assassinate Cross. Aspiring to overthrow STEA and rule over the world, Balsa later uses Shin's destructive powers to becomes the supreme ruler of a new nation, and also starts searching for the angels and demons of the Kabbalah, planning to exploit them to achieve his goals.

  • Sabaki, an early villain, is a ruthless Arms Dealer running an illegal business in which he sells dangerous O-Parts to criminals. Occasionally, he also tricks guillible people by selling them unstable O-Parts, including a mayor whose entire city was destroyed due to his machinations. Introducing himself by killing his servant for a minor reason, Sabaki plans to obtain more powerful O-Parts, so he hires several mercenaries to pillage the Thorn Ruins and assassinate his former colleague Lang who opposes him. Later on, he has said mercenaries be burned alive to test the power of his new henchman. Eventually, Sabaki goes to the Thorn Ruins himself, where he severely injures both Lang and Jio Freed, and tries to kill them in a painful way. Greedy and sadistic, Sabaki proves that even in a world with demons, humans can be the real monsters.

  • Jagga is the tyrannical ruler of Entotsu City, who assassinated his predecessor to take his place. In order to excavate the powerful O-Part Mekisis, Jagga had all his citizens forced into slavery for years, executing anyone who tried to escape and enslaving every strangers who came to the city. Jagga also hired criminals of Zenom to constantly terrorize the city, so that the population would become dependent on his protection. After capturing the young teenager Ruby, Jagga has her be stripped into her underwear before making perverted advances towards her. When Mekisis is discovered, Jagga takes control of it and uses it to ravage the city, killing countless civilians and soldiers in the process. Believing himself to be a god, Jagga plans to use Mekisis's powers to conquer the entire world, no matter how much deaths and destruction will be necessary.

  • Wise Yuri is an underling of Zenom known as "The Crimson Magician" since he murdered hundreds of people in bloody ways. A vicious maniac, Wise even killed some of his own allies, and added new piercings to his tongue for each victims in pride. Instructed to find the O-Part Mekisis, Wise allied himself with the tyrannical Jagga, and made his oppression of Entotsu City even worse by constantly attacking the population with his henchmen. After Mekisis is discovered, Wise sends his henchmen to murder any citizen who could potentially pose problems. Eventually, Wise betrays Jagga to steal Mekisis from him, and uses it to wreak havoc in the city in order to test its powers, planning to use it to take over the world. Despite his low rank, Wise is one of the worst Zenom has to offer.

  • Museshi is Wise's equally bloodthirsty right hand man, who has a penchant for using his O-Part's sharp claws and fangs to torture and slay his victims, and even eats them on occasion. He assisted Wise in many of his crimes, including during his mission in Entotsu City where they helped to enforce Jagga's tyrannical rule by constantly attacking the citizens to ensure their subservience. The day Mekisis is discovered, Museshi gleefully participates in the ensuing massacre of civilians ordered by Wise. When he sees another Zenom member threatening the young Ball and his friends, Museshi brutally murders him in order to have the children for himself. He then proceeds to viciously attack the kids, and eventually attempts to devour Ball alive.

  • Python Jack is a sadistic Serial Killer famous for his love of murders. Long ago, he was treated like a monster in his village due to his disfigurement, so he decided to become a monster for real and went on a killing spree. Thereafter, he committed many mass murders just for fun, and even destroyed a few cities. After joining the Rock Bird Tournament, Python brutally slaughters all the other contestants in his qualification match, and later kills many innocent citizens in horrific ways. During his match against the young girl Yuria, Python tries to make her suffer as much as possible before killing her. Despite his tragic backstory, Python happily embraces his past, as it made him the heartless monster he was meant to be.

UltimateDemonBeast65 Since: Feb, 2018
#174075: Jul 23rd 2019 at 6:31:12 PM

Why isn't Mysterio in the MCU Monster page? He got approved right, and the entry is in the Far From Home YMMV Page.


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