During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Ok here's the updated Granger writeup and the Scopes writeup.
- General Granger is a high ranking general with ambitions of establishing a New World Order to control humanity, believing that humanity is prone to violence and self-destruction without the guidance of a strong leader. To achieve this goal, Granger allies with Scopes and the Genus; supplying the Genus with missiles to infect the entire planet and breaking Scopes out when the latter is captured by the Alienators. During the series finale, Granger plans to launch more missiles to spread the Genus across the planet and planning to give the Eastern Hemisphere to Scopes so he can rule over what's left. When the Alienators foil project Alpha-Omega, Granger tries to restart the project through using the satellite defense system to launch a nuclear strike on the moon so the Genus cells there could be spread across earth and successfully acquires most of the launch code. During the final battle, when Ira reveals to Granger that Scopes has no intention of keeping his end of the bargain, Granger refuses to listen and continues to believe that Scopes was under his control.
- The aforementioned Scopes is the sentient presence leading the Genus invasion. Believing that the Genus were superior to humanity and seeing human empathy as a weakness, Scopes seeks to spread the Genus all over the planet and destroy the human race. To this end, Scopes attempts many times to kill the Alienators while taking every opportunity to spread Genus cells across earth such as trying to use the fallout from a nuclear submarine as well as missiles supplied by General Granger to ensure the evolution of the Genus goes unimpeded. In the finale, Scopes works with Granger to nuke the moon and spread the Genus cells across Earth; with Scopes himself planning to spread the moon debris across the universe. When confronted by Ira in the series finale, Scopes reveals that he has no intention of dividing the world between himself and Granger. Instead, he plans to terraform the earth to render it inhospitable to humans so that only the Genus could reign supreme.
Edited by xie323 on Jul 23rd 2019 at 10:28:19 AM
Anyways...The promised Kazuhiro Fujita candidate...
What's the Work
The Black Museum or Kuro Hakubutsan is another manga by Kazuhiro Fujita. Well, the manga itself is set in Victorian Era and is about the curator from Victorian Era Black Museum who tells us several fascinating story of Victorian England legends. However, most of the story is about "Spring-Heeled Jack" that had several "Jack the Ripper" elements in it and the story of "Florence Nightingale" with Supernatural Elements.
The candidate in question however, comes from the second story which is the Florence Nightingale story. Originally, Florence is a rather miserable person that wants to end her live, so she ended up going to the Drury Lane Theater in England that was haunted by the Man In Grey and asks Man In Gray to end her life.
However, as the time went on, The Man In Gray becomes Florence's protector and Florence herself becomes rather self-confident of herself despite she asked Man In Gray to kill her when she went into the depths of despair (Which unfortunately is a rather hard achievement for Florence herself). And yes, after Florence ended up becoming a nurse that revitalizes an old hospital in England, Florence and The Man In Gray set their foot into the hell known as Crimean War so that she could help saving many people (or so that she could fell into despair for second option).
And after Florence went into Crimea, she was assigned to a Hospital in the Ottoman Empire known as "Scutari Army Field Hospital" which is rather notorious for their poor medical system. And the man who is behind the mismanagement of the Hospital? Meet Inspector John Hall everyone!
Who is He/What Has He Done
Sir John Hall is the old, revolting man who is the director of "Scutari Army Field Hospital" who is notorious for his Hair-Trigger Temper personality. He is also the one who is responsible of the mismanagement of the hospital which resulted on the soldiers or participants who were defeated in Crimean War were slowly left to rot to die in the hospital due to the poor facilities and the management that the hospital had.
This is due to Hall's stupid regulations so that the England can spend their money in the war against Crimea but its revealed that he also had a sinister purpose behind it. After Florence went into Crimea along with other nurses, Hall and his soldiers then tries to implement the harsh regulation on them but to no avail as Florence rebelled against Hall's regulation and works at her best to make the hospital better.
This...Pisses of Hall of course and as a result, he sent the ghost that has been haunting him, Le Chevailer D'Eon, to murder Florence but failed at first. It was also revealed that the ghost of Le Chevailer D'Eon? Haunts Hall because of aligning interests as they conspire together to get rid most of the people Hall doesn't like or enemies of Hall himself.
The reason why Hall intentionally managed his hospital badly and let the wounded soldiers to die? Is because Hall clearly resents them and view them as low class and fodder to die in the war and also has a huge hatred towards people who view what's the right and just thing to do.
It was also revealed that another reason why he become bitter old man despite he used to hold his resentment as a child is because of him getting stripped as a Hospital Head during the Waterloo Battle given the horrific mistreatment of the patients and his callousness during said battle. Seeing Florence tampering with his plans, Hall does any means to discredit or hinders Florence's accomplishments by either giving the England Governors several slanderous reports or outright lies to them regarding the state of the Hospital.
During Florence and his companions' visit to Balaklava Hospital to improve the harsh conditions in there, Hall then orders D'Eon again to murder Florence and this time it was near successful as D'Eon delivered a stab to Florence which causes her fell into coma much to Hall's delight. Despite his mistreatment towards the wounded patients, he got an award by the English Governors called "Order of the Bath" because why not? Much to Florence and co.'s disappointment.
Even then, Hall still tries to kill Florence anyway by trickery as he sent an invitation towards her to become a nurse in Transport Corp which made Florence and her companions return to Crimea. Predictably, this was a trap set by Hall as he does tried to kill Florence via his own man.
Hall makes his last appearance by saying that Florence doesn't know how the true horror of war was like which Florence rebuked and say that Hall is the true horror of war. In the meantime, her guardian, Man In Gray, was defeated by D'Eon much to Florence's sadness while Hall taunts her about it. This resulted on Florence tried to kill him with a gun. Fortunately, she was stopped by the dying Man In Gray by possessing a kid before he took a rest for a long time. Though the accident left Hall in a shock so yeah...
Freudian Excuse/Mitigating Factors
Nope. While you could argue that he is bitter due to him getting promoted as a hospital director again despite the fact he got fired from his position due to his notorious treatment towards other patients, Hall does bear a grudge towards other people even when he was a child so yea...
Heinous Standard
Now, Black Museum has two story: About Jack the Ripper expy and this one about Florence Nightingale and both of them are shared universe. In this universe though, there is one person who nearly hits the trope but as Lighty said via P Ms, he isn't heinous enough as the person in question is a creeper who kidnaps several children and then hypnotizes them to strip naked so that he could took photo of them.
Hall... I think he passes just a bit. What seals the deal with me with Hall about his deed despite seemingly being a standard villainy on paper? Is his callousness on treating other patient. Hall knows their poor conditions and doesn't care to improve them anyway, leaving them to rot as a corpse as what Hall said: He views as them as nothing but a fodder for war and lower class individuals so take that as you will.
Final Verdict
I think he's a keep. Yes, you may argue that he does have several issues on qualifying and that's understandable and I'll be honest that I want to give this one to Lighty given his interest with Fujita manga and all but yeah, I feel like I'm stalling this EP for too long. Until then, thoughts?
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."I sent a message to Nombretomado and Septimus Heap about the missing entries.
I'm not sure on Hall. The only thing that might qualify him is him purposefully allowing the soldiers to die and I'm not getting the idea of how much of a body count there is, so elucidating on that would help.
I'm also gonna be checking out one of my favorite vampire novels...there's like zero chance most characters can qualify, but there's one very, very quickly glimpsed character who might make it from a flashback.
DarkWolf: The Dark Wolf is a werewolf hybrid that seeks to mate with the next pureblood werewolf matriarch to usher in a new generation of pureblood werewolves to overrun the other breeds and wipe out humanity. Starting off running from a team of hunters in a strip club, the Dark Wolf tries to take a hostage and rips his captors apart before escaping, then mortally wounds the "protector" before going on a rampage and slaughtering everyone the werewolf matriarch has touched. Once the matriarch makes it to the police station, the Dark Wolf kills every officer inside, and chases her to the roof where he tries to rape her.
@Lightysnake I think its a lot (Probably hundreds) given the screenshot of the wounded soldiers writhing in pain before they rot in a slow painful death and some of them died. I recall that before Florence came, the hospital has 52% mortality rate before it got decreased to just 10% thanks to her efforts improving the hospital a bit.
I think its understandable why you feel that way.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jul 24th 2019 at 1:30:45 AM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."Lighty: Let The Roght One In, I presume ?
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."That's the one. A book where the serial killing pedophile and the serial killing, mass murdering vampire aren't even second glances as potential keeps.
Also did finish another Jeff Strand where the villain was a rock solid keep minus one minor redeeming quality. A shame since his MO was fucked. C'est la vie.
Edited by Lightysnake on Jul 23rd 2019 at 11:43:56 AM
I still need Brain Bleach after reading that. Great book, but ...
Edited by Stellarvore on Jul 23rd 2019 at 1:50:57 PM
Yeah, the guy is a serial killer whose MO is kidnapping women, locking them in the basement and getting off on slowly watching them starve to death, and this is before we get to torture, other murder, etc.
Problem is...his relationship with his (equally murderous) wife is...rocky at best, but he very clearly loves his (also murderous) son, commenting he'd rather go down in a hail of bullets than be separated from him and when said son is killed by the heroines, he's furious.
That said, I'll reread that bit from Let the Right One In and make a decision on Eli's sire before long.
Edited by Lightysnake on Jul 23rd 2019 at 12:07:07 PM
Hall
Oh I'm curious from let the right one in who is it.
I know hakan doesn't count because of well this from the trope page.....
- Alas, Poor Villain: Hakan might be the only time in movie history where you could cry for the death of a serial-killing pedophile, holding a sobbing Eli in his arms and letting her feed on him before falling out the hospital window to his death. Especially considering what he does to his face to keep Eli safe beforehand.
Wait, TWO Strand works with a Serial Killer with a redeeming quality? Huh.
What's the other one?
EDIT: Sure to Hall.
Edited by ACW on Jul 23rd 2019 at 3:27:44 PM

A while ago I made an argument
for Forged Destiny Raven to be admitted into the CM gang. Since I got no negative replies, I shall call the example approved and propose a following draft:
- Raven Branwen, the leader of Greycloaks, is a murderous sociopath obsessed with becoming the "apex predator" of the entire existence. With that goal in mind, she resolves to summon and kill Salem, uncaring for the disastrous consequences this plan could entail. In order to gain enough power to fulfill her perceived destiny, Raven kills numerous people across Remnant and eventually murders her own brother for the sake of gaining more experience. Once she deems herself strong enough to defeat Salem, Raven attempts to torture Ruby to generate enough negativity for the ritual to be performed. When that fails, she instead decides to brutally slaughter all her followers, seeing no further use for them, an act which allows her to finally summon Salem into the material realm, endangering entire humankind with extinction. Uncaring for anyone other than herself, Raven ends up killing thousands of people and causing untold destruction in her quest for power.
Apathy is Death. Worse than Death, because at least a rotting corpse feeds beasts and insects.