During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I'm reading the products by their release date. Spelljammer has the odd tendency of treating the destruction of entire planets as background fluff, which is very weird by normal Dungeons and Dragons standards. Ironically enough, Spelljammer was deisgned to be Lighter and Softer and Denser and Wackier than other settings yet winds up having by far the highest heinous standard is all of Dungeons and Dragons history.
In this case, at least, the vampire is threatening entire solar systems and has some smaller personal cruelties to back him up.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Jul 18th 2019 at 8:24:00 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.I mean the reason the character called simply called Cage from Twisted Metal: Black should fully qualify is that he joined the tournament to achieve his wish to remove his ability and capacity to feel sadness, sorrow, remorse, regret, repentance, humanity, etc, for good, that is all kinds of wrong and evil, that is something I simply cannot fathom anyone nor anything doing.
Edited by KnowoneknowswhoIam on Jul 18th 2019 at 8:25:39 AM
Took a while to get here, but now that I am and see that a certain EP I'd been anticipating was finally done...
Massive
the Mind Flayer. He was too distant a threat to really count back in ST 2, but now? He easily counts. Got so many It and even Bill Cipher vibes from him this season (c'mon, they even used "We'll Meet Again" at one point in association with him!)
One correction to the EP, though: the Mind Flayer was not merely cast away this time, he died. The physical form he made for himself was his only remaining lifeline by the time the gate was shut and his connection to the Upside Down was lost, which is what killed him and, unfortunately, all the Flayed who were absorbed into him. There's a slim chance that a part of him still resides within the Upside Down and that will lead to his final stand, but this has to be confirmed by the fourth (and potentially final) season.
Dude, no one is responding to your post because you are not approaching this thread in the right way. We don't upvote a candidate based on one person saying "this character should qualify because these reasons". The candidate must be properly Effort Posted and evaluated. Also, your blatant impatience to get us all to respond to you is offputting to a ridiculous degree.
Edited by ANewMan on Jul 18th 2019 at 8:34:36 AM
The Mind Flayer's that good of a villain?
If you were wanting to suggest a proposal, by all means, go ahead. You'll need to EP the candidate; Lighty's recent EP could be used as an example
.
Edited by AustinDR on Jul 18th 2019 at 8:28:56 AM
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Use our EP template in this link.
If you do not use it, you will be hollered to for not following the rules.
The rigid criteria mentioned at
and any crucial information you need or want to know can be found at Complete Monster. Please read it as well so as to understand this trope better.
Edited by Draxterrus on Jul 18th 2019 at 11:49:23 PM
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.~Knowoneknowswho Iam, If you have a candidate, you must give the candidate in question an effort post using the template
since a character must meet the rigid criteria to be a Complete Monster.
For example, Nui Harime from Kill la Kill is a Hate Sink but doesn't count as a CM because, in A New Man's words, "[h]er moral agency and deeds are all tied to Ragyo, who ''obliterates'' her in terms of heinousness"
.
Edited by IukaSylvie on Jul 19th 2019 at 12:53:39 AM
@A New Man Apparently his physical form in the real world died while his actual form still exists in the Upside Down. We'll see when Stranger Things 4 comes out.
Also, the Flayed that he melted down to use as his body totaled about 30, so yikes! I know this because the government had to cover it up by saying that 30 people were killed in a fire at Starcourt.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jul 18th 2019 at 9:05:25 AM
While I'm at it,
to Sarah (jesus, and my parents were concerned about me being into Goosebumps when I was a kid. I didn't realize R.L. Stine had written much grislier material) and
to Seridur (didn't read the EP. Didn't need to. I've played that quest, and he's not evil enough).
Sander, Kain, 666 Satan villains, Mago, Mind Flayer and Sarah
Seridur
Abstain on Bluebeard
"It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times?"Just watched The Lion King 2019. Has anyone taken dibs on covering it yet?
Since I have a better understanding of how things now, since I am still new to how the rules and regulations apply, but I will give these candidates a try, the first two being from a video game, a now 18 year old, version, the darkest one, out all iterations, at present bar none, including their most recent version: Twisted Metal (2012/PS 3), the game in question is called Twisted Metal: Black, the first candidate I offer is simply called: Cage, he is a serial killer, seeking to become the greatest serial killer and killer of all times, while details are scant, almost a tad vexing for this particular reason. Nonetheless, he mentions over the course of the game, that he killed a fat woman by pushing her off a tall building, and he said he cried like a baby, saying he felt so sad, he also mentioned killing another woman by burying her underneath his homes floorboards, but the killing is not what bothered him in the least, the reason he joined the tournament in the first place, is because he wants to remove the parts of his brain that contains his humanity, remorse, regret, sympathy, empathy, sadness, sorrow, and ability to repent and atone for what he has said and done, as his conscious is what is bothering him the most, not the killing. No Freudian Excuses are ever so most as implied nor mentioned even in passing, from the beginning, halfway through and all the way through till the end of the game, no standards, are mentioned, of any kind, nor loved ones. When he gets what he wants at the end of his story line he says the following passage: People are terrified of that clown freak, referring to the character called Sweet Tooth, real name Charles Kane, in any case, the rest of the sentence says: I will show them something they will never forget.
The second candidate is also from the same game has no speaking lines at all, but I feel he qualifies, throughout the whole game, on account of the fact, while he never speaks, he gives people exactly what they wanted, with revenge being rewarded, in the case of a character called No-Face, real name Frank Mc Clutcheon, a former amateur boxer, killing the back-alley doctor named Dr Hatchet, who turned him into a horrifying looking monster, while only retaining some of human-looking characteristics, for losing a big bet and a lot of money from betting on No-Face and as a result purposely made into a hideous looking monster, the other revenge cases, that were fulfilled were a high school age Goth girl named Raven, killing her two idiot jocks who killed her best friend, and in turn killed them via Voodoo dolls, a farmer named Billy Ray Stillwell, who lost his looks and his wife, to a pilot who turned his wife against him, resulting in him killing said wife, and in his ending getting revenge against said unnamed pilot by piloting his own airplane to kill him with it, and afterwards found he enjoyed killing so much, he in turn in his ending, went to the city to go on a become a serial killer. Yet another case of revenge, a wish granted with no string attached, and no harm to the wished in question was to a character called Mr Grimm, who is a traumatized Vietnam War Vet, who turned to cannibalism, to survive, eating his best friend Benny, who died of starvation first, while the sadistic prison camp overseer handed Mr Grimm a machete to kill and eat his dead friend, laughing while doing so, eventually tearing of his dead friends skull and sewn the gaps back together, somewhat crudely, as result of loss of sanity and near death starvation and cannibalism, when Mr Grimm, is found he is taken home, after a brief fight where those that saved him tried to remove the skull of his dead friend from his own head, and put into a mental hospital at the beginning of the game, his revenge in his ending lead him to develop a taste for human flesh, his revenge is rewarded by getting to eat the person who left him to nearly die of starvation and forced to resort to cannibalism to survive. The second candidates characters name is called Calypso, he rewards cases of revenge no strings attached, while those seeking love, in the case of Bloody Mary, still did not get what they wanted at all, leading her to become a serial killer, desperately looking someone to love her back, another character looking to right a wrong, being unable to save a family, and end up accidentally killing said family while blinded by his anger and emotions, the character being named Agent Stone, only to be killed, what the game itself implies the games Big Bad: Calypso, by being shot in the head and killed instantly. Another case Calypso is responsible for the death of the character called Preacher real name Jebediah, driving him to suicide after believing himself to have been demonically possessed, he said he would only tell him the truth, not promising to clear his name, the Preacher went on a killing spree inside a church of a young couple seeking to baptize their newborn baby, which he initially believed to be demonically possessed and exorcising, in which the Preacher killed the newborn baby by drowning the baby in the baptizing ritual, and killing the parents in the process. John Doe who sought to find out his real name and past, only for Calypso to kill him for finding out the truth that he is an FBI Agent seeking to bring down Calypso the second most wanted man on the planet, while unarmed and finding out so much of his past in the process, by shooting him to death, Charlie Kane the driver of Yellow Jacket a taxicab, a zombie puppet killed by this games version of Sweet Tooth, the young son who entered the contest, get his wish with now remote controlled zombie puppet dad: Charlie Kane, instead Calypso destroyed the remote and its implied in Yellow Jackets game ending, Calypso has plans to make the young unnamed son, his successor, making him an evil mentor, sadist teacher, evil teacher, all in one. The last case of revenge that is granted without issue is to Axel, who wanted to get revenge for his wife's murder, only to feel he will never be free. This version of Calypso is terrified of Black an unstoppable seemingly inhuman, demonic entity, apparently sent from another dimension on the orders from an an even more monstrously evil version of Calypso, the games present Calypso is so terrified of Black that when Black came for him, he left behind a fairly powerful bomb to try to get rid of him, and message saying what is essentially a screw and I am sorry for my bit of foul language here a f you. Who immediately recovers unharmed with slightly damaged what looks like S & M gear, gets in his dump truck and continues the pursuit of Twisted Metal: Black games Big Bad Calypso. One final case of revenge is given to a female character named Krista Sparks, who goes by the name Doll Face, who desperately wants the mask that her boss Mr. Kreel locked with a placed on Krista Sparks face for damaging important documents, enough so in fact, that he sadistically hammered the nail in her face through the mask and locked with a unique key, she ends up finding out she is not as much as fault as she led herself to believe, when Calypso finally gives her the key, she takes killing now former boss by crushing him to death in an iron maiden, but ultimately decides not to use said key after all this time on a second thought, feeling that it all look pretty on the outside while her body is old and aging, inside and out, it is also implied that she is suffering from brain damage because of said mask. She ultimately decides to make people like her now dead boss Mr. Kreel pay for all of the awful things they do.
No excuses are ever presented for these characters same thing with standards, nor loved ones. The game treats them deadly serious from the beginning, middle and finally the end.
Edited by KnowoneknowswhoIam on Jul 18th 2019 at 10:21:19 AM
Most of the violence is fairly vanilla (a stabbing here, a gunshot there, a fall elsewhere).
But every now and then, there's an incredibly nasty, graphic death like all of a girl's skin peeling off after she obliviously jumps into a Jacuzzi that's overflowing with chlorine (Fear Hall: The Conclusion) or a man being stripped down to his underwear before being tied to the ground and covered in honey and oats as starved horses are let loose on him (The Lost Girl; incidentally, this was an obscure Medieval torture technique, though it usually involved goats).
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Please use the EP template that I provided to propose characters. It makes your proposals less cluttered and allows us to easily read them.
You should rewrite your proposals using the template and send them to me by PM so I can check if you are doing it properly and correctly.
Edited by Draxterrus on Jul 19th 2019 at 1:24:31 AM
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.![]()
Relatively speaking, though. From what I recall, most of the Goosebumps villains — with a few exceptions (like the Lord High Executioner, Mr. Toggle, or even the Masked Mutant) — rarely ever seem all that threatening or even all that scary. I know he wrote the Babysitter trilogy, which had a serial killer upset over the loss of his son, but those are more marketed at teens than children, as far as I know. And most of Sarah's EP certainly sounded like a serious case of Getting Crap Past the Radar to me, by children's book standards, anyway.
Okay, back on topic now.
Edited by Stellarvore on Jul 19th 2019 at 11:46:40 AM
I read it that that is why I am trying to propose them, although while the the game in question is not lighthearted by any means, these two additional ones, stick out as the most seriously played characters, apart from Sweet Tooth, Black, Mr. Grimm, Preacher (Jebediah), No Face (Frank Mc Clutcheon), Bloody Mary, Agent Stone, Billy Ray Stillwell, and a few others, apart from Sweet Tooth, these two additional ones, are treated the most seriously and deadly out all of them, even compared to the above mentioned.
Edited by KnowoneknowswhoIam on Jul 18th 2019 at 10:35:42 AM

I have a nomination for complete monster from the twisted metal games, in particular twisted metal black, the character cage, this version fully qualifies, I mean he fits the criteria to a t.