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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

randomtroper89 from The Fire Nation Since: Nov, 2010
#172701: Jul 15th 2019 at 11:20:45 PM

@Mirac: Wasn't Mysterio at his worst not as a Spiderman villain but as a Daredevil villain?

Edited by randomtroper89 on Jul 15th 2019 at 1:21:08 PM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#172702: Jul 15th 2019 at 11:27:01 PM

[up] I'd say He was "At his worst" in the X men of all things, his most infamous crime was when he tricked Wolverine into Killing all the X men in the Old man Logan continuity.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#172703: Jul 15th 2019 at 11:29:20 PM

Oh right yeah. Sorry to clarify this. When Beck goes up against anyone whose not 616 Spiderman in particular (Old man Logan, ultimate marvel and Daredevil) , he is genuinely competent and even really evil which is what his MCU version draws from.

Maybe.....He should pull a Rogues' Gallery Transplant in the future.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#172704: Jul 15th 2019 at 11:47:22 PM

[tup] Mysterio. Christ Alive, that man.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#172705: Jul 15th 2019 at 11:54:16 PM

[tup] to Annabelle

Things are really about to get Fun around here
toonyloon Since: Jul, 2011
#172706: Jul 16th 2019 at 12:00:47 AM

Easy [tup] Mysterio. I went into the movie knowing that he wasn't going to actually be a good guy, and I was still surprised at how vile he was.

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#172707: Jul 16th 2019 at 12:04:09 AM
Pemulis_128 A 20th Century Boy from Teleporting behind you Since: Jul, 2018 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
A 20th Century Boy
#172708: Jul 16th 2019 at 12:54:50 AM

Throwing in a [tup] to Mysterio.

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#172709: Jul 16th 2019 at 1:07:13 AM

Mysterio gets a [tup] from me, but I'm more interested in how he fares with Hate Sink and Magnificent Bastard. The guy's a monster, but he's clearly an entertaining one that folks Love to Hate.

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#172710: Jul 16th 2019 at 1:08:49 AM

[tup] Mysterio and Cyanide. Abstain on Ananbelle.

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#172711: Jul 16th 2019 at 1:41:49 AM

I find it odd that ol' fishbowl head will now have not one but two incarnations. He's just so hammy and Laughably Evil.

Since it seems that this will be Bluebeards fourth incarnation to count, that will make him the fairytale character with the most CM incarnations (previously he was tied with the Pied Piper). On the subject of Bluebeard, there is something I have been wondering; is that his real name in the original story? About a week ago, I was watching a playthrough of an online game based off the tale (he doesn't appear in person, you just go through his home and free the spirits of his dead wives who he has trapped while he is out), and the game made it clear that was not his real name in that universe, just a nickname. I forget what his true name was. When I saw that, I realized how ridiculous a real name "Bluebeard" would be, and that they never actually called him that in the Grimms Fairytale version, which made me curious. We changed the titles for the main character from Hatred and the hitman from Elfen Lied. I'm curious if that should be done with Bluebeard. In the original fairytale, do they ever actually address him as Bluebeard, or is this a case of I Am Not Shazam, with the fairytale being called that simply because he inexplicably has a blue beard? This reminds me of Ben Drowned. Drowned is not his surname. The reason the story is called Ben Drowned is because Ben is his name and that's how he died. If we are going for "professionalism", we should be clear to get the names and titles of each character right. Can anyone confirm if the fairytale ever actually had him called Bluebeard or if it just mentioned that he had a blue beard?

Edited by bobg on Jul 16th 2019 at 1:44:05 AM

jjj
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#172712: Jul 16th 2019 at 1:48:20 AM

[tup] Boss, Bluebeard, Mysterio and Annabelle.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#172713: Jul 16th 2019 at 2:02:57 AM

For Surtur: I'm leaving it completely up to Lighty. Though I think he said this week is the week for discussion of Malekith's crimes, so...I'm flexible when it comes to that.

Sure to Bluebeard and Annabelle (we have Valak, no reason not to have Annabelle).

Yes to Mysterio too. I'm amazed they got Simmons back. BTW, in case you're wondering, Mysterio's 1st CM was Spider-Man: Shattered Dimensions; Jake's 1st was Nightcrawler.

Keshali Since: Jul, 2019
#172714: Jul 16th 2019 at 2:17:48 AM

[tup] Mysterio.

Now here's a proposal from a very underated source, Romani mythology. I would post the link, but for some reason I can't; just go to Bogleech's Ana page and see the sources there.

Ugly Bastard and his Hell Birb Son

Once upon a time the King of the Loçolici (humans cursed by Satan) fancied Ana, the queen of the Keshali (basically The Fair Folk). She refused him because he was ugly and unhygienic, so he decided to hunt down her people and eat them in retaliation. Horrified by the slaughter of her own people, she agreed to marry him, but even then she wouldn't let him touch her. So, being the Nice Guy he is, he drugged her and raped her. The utterly loveless union resulted in the birth of Melalo, a two-headed bird.

The King apparently wasn't a bird person, since he thought Melalo was ugly and disowned him. Melalo took no offense to this; instead, he goaded the King into raping Ana more times, making demonic offspring that represent every disease that afflicts humanity. Melalo even took the hagfish-like sister Liliy as his mate and made even more disease babies with her. Two of his most horrific episodes didn't involve the participation of his father at all:

- As she was afflicted by her own children, Ana begged Melalo for a cure. He told her to get licked by mice, which did cure her sores but resulted in one gnawing its way inside her, impregnating her with Lolmischo, the god of skin diseases.

- Tired of all these abominations, Ana asked Melalo for a way to sterilize herself. Melalo told her to cover herself in cow dung, which resulted in a beetle crawling up her vagina and impregnating her with Minceskre, the goddess of veneral diseases.

Eventually, the Keshali got tired of all this nonsense so they baked the King a cake made with cat and dog hairs, resulting in him getting impregnated with Poreskoro, the embodiment of the black plague. With this attempt on his life, the King decided to cut his losses and divorce Ana... and even then only if she remained immortal, as once she croaks he will kill all Keshali for once and for all. So now she is forced to drink the blood of three of her kind every day and lives as a traumatised recluse in the mountains, crushing everyone who encroaches her domain with avalanches.

Its not clear what the King' fate ultimately was (since Ana keeps on doing these things it can be assumed he's okay), but Melalo is very much still at large. He is credited with every act of violence, sexual or otherwise, that happens, either by tempting people or outright possessing them. When not doing this, he enjoys tearing out hearts with his own talons, and he continues to breed with his hagfish wife sister to make more inbred abominations to create more and more diseases.

Heinous Standard

The worst thing Satan does in Roma mythology is make people ugly. Pretty small compared to genocide (including promised genocide), eating other sapient beings, repeated and obsessive sexual assault, every atrocity known to man...

Reedeming Features

Nope.

Mitigating Factors

You could argue that Made of Evil is at play, but I don't think so because A) the Loçolici have been cursed by Satan for being bad in the first place, B) none of Melalo's demon siblings seems to go beyond an unpleasant True Neutral.

Edited by Keshali on Jul 16th 2019 at 2:38:33 AM

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#172715: Jul 16th 2019 at 2:25:46 AM

[up] HOLY SHIT! That's one of the most fucked up things I've ever read on here. [tup] to both, provided the son didn't show any explicit love for the father.

jjj
Keshali Since: Jul, 2019
#172716: Jul 16th 2019 at 2:35:46 AM

He didn't, at least in none of the sources. I could imagine a modern interpretation where he's doing what he does to get at him not loving him, but even then that's absolutely Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse.

Edited by Keshali on Jul 16th 2019 at 2:35:58 AM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#172717: Jul 16th 2019 at 2:42:36 AM

sees the Romani mythology EP

.... Σ(O_O;)

Assuming this truly has several sources and citations via poems or legitimate stories... I'll give them easy yeses.

Now if you excuse me, I'm going to soak my soul with a bleach after reading that.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Keshali Since: Jul, 2019
#172718: Jul 16th 2019 at 2:45:13 AM

Bogleech has a truly impressive article on it, but again I can't link it because "new accounts can't post links" or something.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#172719: Jul 16th 2019 at 2:55:54 AM

[tup] the Romani guys.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#172720: Jul 16th 2019 at 3:08:08 AM

[tup] for Quentin "Mysterio" Beck.

If there's valid sources, then sure, the Romani villains can go up. Another one for the "everyone's disgusted but me" category.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
KingofNightmares Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#172721: Jul 16th 2019 at 3:08:46 AM

[tup] Romani villains (those are legitimately disturbing though....)

"It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times?"
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#172722: Jul 16th 2019 at 3:25:15 AM

[tup] Annabelle and the Romani villains.

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#172723: Jul 16th 2019 at 3:32:25 AM

I can't decide what is most disturbing thing mentioned on here; the time we discussed Mrs Lenz raping her son Billy to impregnate herself in Black Christmas, the Human Centipede films, especially the third, the creepypasta bullshit, the time I brought up Rapelay (Old Shame), or this. Working on this thread requires a strong stomach sometimes. Makes sense considering we are discussing the most evil and heinous characters in fiction. Good thing we have that "must have a plot beyond just mindless gross stuff" which keeps torture porn and the like out of here. If we hadn't put in that rule, it might have gotten to the point where stuff was suggested that legitimately made people vomit from reading it.

jjj
Keshali Since: Jul, 2019
#172724: Jul 16th 2019 at 3:33:46 AM

I originally considered putting a trigger warning like Bogleech did, but I figured no one else did so...

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#172725: Jul 16th 2019 at 3:41:01 AM

It would be somewhat interesting to compare what some of us thought were the grossest things mentioned on here, but knowing the stuff that does get brought up... plus, I don't want to make anyone sick. The one good thing I can say is that as far as I know, there has never been a character discussed on here who say was an infantophile. I hope we never have to discuss such a character.

jjj

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