During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
@Therealjackieboy
In fairness, Captain Marvel showed the MCU is willing to use large cases of Adaptational Heroism. And Mysterio is usually one of the less evil Spidey villains(Wich makes how monstrous he is here even more shocking) so making him a good guy wouldn't be too unbelievable. I was able to predict he would be evil, but I thought the multiverse thing would be true. I thought the twist would be that he was the one to destroy his own world, so the twist still surprised me.
Edited by Kylotrope on Jul 15th 2019 at 9:18:54 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
everyone I missed.
By the way, I have a question about Grande's entry from Tweeny Witches. Is it worth mentioning that the wizards are the traditional subgroup of the warlocks, meaning that they're essentially subjected to ghettoization and the eradication of cultural heritage by members of the broader group of that heritage? I would say it is, but I would like to know your opinion just in case.
@43110 Just preferring my vote on becoming page topper. Yeah, I know its a bad behavior but oh well... Damage has been done.
Need to think on this shit
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jul 15th 2019 at 11:24:33 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."I remember back when it was announced, I contemplated reserving Far From Home's discussion date but quickly reconsidered, thinking that there was no way we were getting a villain that was CM-worthy from the MCU's version of Spider-Man since even villains weaker than our current keepers like Stane and Killian were distinctly pretty nasty, and the announcement that ol' fishbowl head would be in it solidified that belief.
Boy was I wrong.
It's tempting to wallow in self-pity and beat myself up for cheating myself out of getting an MCU candidate approved, but you know what? Ravok's effortposts are always a fun read so I'm not sad in the slightest. Easy, easy yes to Mysterio.
Edited by FriedWarthog on Jul 15th 2019 at 9:44:59 AM
And that's a yes for Mysterio and Bluebeard.
Oh, and sorry for being kinda annoying, but is there any other opinion on Zantafio and Cyanure's images
?
to Mysterio. Even though the MCU has plenty of other villains who are “worse”, Mysterio is pretty low on resources (he’s just a human with cool technology), and the mind rape he inflicts on Spider-Man along with his desire to kill thousands of people including teenagers easily push him over the line. Also, he’s insanely petty, so again,
to him.
Cyan, Boss, Bluebeard and a big one to Mysterio
Rag Doll
Everyone from the first Spirou candidate to here. Also yes to the Zantafio images and the third Cyanide image.
For a while I was going back and forth on Mysterio, mostly since we never see any explicit casualties of his attacks, just the destruction and heavy implication of large casualties. What puts him over the edge for me is the Mind Rape as well as his framing of Peter, which makes him one of the more personal villains in the MCU imo.
I'll have to pass on voting for Annabelle until I see a proper EP of her (I guess I missed one that Sum made a while ago). Also is Annabelle ever explicitly called a demon? I've only seen parts of the new film and she's only referred to as an "Inhuman Spirit."
Edited by papyru30 on Jul 15th 2019 at 11:42:42 AM
The true form is a ram-like demon. And I'll probably make an EP. Namely the reason as to why I decided not to was because there was already a pretty decent one made on her. But I'll make one if that's really an issue.
Who is Annabelle?
The de facto mascot of The Conjuring Universe a porcelain doll based off of a Raggedy Anne doll who houses an inhuman spirit.
What has she done?
In Annabelle: Creation, toymaker Samuel Mullins and his wife Esther are distraught over the tragic death of their daughter. So they pray to any force out there to give them the chance to see their daughter again. Their prayers are answered, and they start seeing glimpses of their daughter in mirrors. They then grant the spirit permission to dwell in one of the porcelain dolls. But of course it is really a demon who then mauls Esther and tears out her eye when the ruse is discovered. They trap the doll in a closet and make the home into an orphanage.
12 years later, orphans from St. Eustace arrive, and Annabelle sets its eyes on polio stricken Janice seeing her as an easy target. It psychologically and physically tortures her before taking full possession of her. She bisects Esther and crucifies her upper body, and she uses her demonic powers to contort Samuel's fingers and bends them back in grotesque fashion before grizzly killing him.
Janice is adopted by the Higgins segueing into the first film where Annabelle compels Janice to kill her adoptive parents and then invading another house to repeat the process. Mia and John Form are attacked, but Janice slits her own throat, and Annabelle retakes possession of another doll. Mia gives birth to a daughter, Leah, and Annabelle threatens to claim her baby's soul lest she forfeited her own. One Heroic Sacrifice in the form of her friend, and Annabelle is next given to two roommates as according to the official story.
Annabelle Comes Home has Ed and Lorraine nearly getting killed by Annabelle and Judy Warren later is left in the hands of her babysitter Mary Ellen. But then her friend Daniela unwittingly frees Annabelle causing her to bring other spirits into the house such as the Ferryman and a haunted wedding dress. She has them attempt to kill the three girls to prevent them from placing her back in her case and tries to rip out the soul of Judy.
She later takes a role in the Perron haunting when Bathsheba Sherman releases her, but it seems that she is done for the moment.
Freudian Excuse? Mitigating factors?
Like I mentioned, her and Valak are in a situation where they are interchangeable as demons. Both tried to get a human vessel for example. Because of that, if you put either in any circumstance, they'd do the same. With Valak, I mentioned it being based on the Great President of Hell from the Lesser Key of Solomon and as such, seems to be more powerful and is more methodical in what it does. But like I said that is more or less supplementary information, but Valak still shares some attributes that the one from the occult book possesses.
Heinous standard
Valak killed an abbey of nuns in its origin film, kept a man from passing on into the afterlife, and has a few attempts on the Hodgson family and Warrens. While Valak has a higher body count, Annabelle I feel is no slouch with what she has to work with. She takes the time to gruesomely kill her victims oftentimes slowly and prolonged. She breaks the fingers of Samuel before murdering him; she gouges Esther's eye out and then cuts her in half; she tortures a defenseless child because she was an easy target. And she even threatened to steal the soul of a baby girl and tried to rip Judy's soul out of her body. Another child victim.
Conclusion
Make of her as you will.
Edited by AustinDR on Jul 16th 2019 at 12:00:26 PM
Umbrella executive, Bluebeard and hell yes to Mysterio. What a vile prick.
@kylo: Actually depends on whose writing him. He's one of those characters who can flip between joke character and psychopath. It's not very consistent but he can e show himself as one of Spidermans worst when he tries
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

Sure to Mysterio... I believe that he sounds like Syndrome from Incredible per what Kylotrope has said
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."